Did Trump just destroy democracy in America? (3ed debate)

duffman9000

macrumors 68000
Sep 7, 2003
1,887
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Deep in the Depths of CA
I didn't realize the elections over, oops, its not. Just like the vote to succeed from the European Union, British voters didn't let people know how they are going to vote. They didn't want to be politically correct and be labeled as racist and other profanities.

They won by a landslide. I think we are going to see the same thing in the Presidential election.
What, you think they won in a landslide?

Scotland voted 62% to remain.
N Ireland voted 55.7% to remain.
England voted 53.2% to leave.
Wales voted 51.7% to leave.

Final tally: 51.9% to leave.

Where is this landslide business?
 

linuxcooldude

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2010
2,470
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I wonder if the busses are fueled and ready to go when they travel to all the election sites in New York City. At least thats what Alan Schulkin says.
 

LizKat

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2004
5,265
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Catskill Mountains
1) media is biased and etc ~snip~.
Take all that and listen to last night's debate again. And the second debate. And the first debate.

One of these two people will be President of the United States of America.

Yes, even if either one of them is eventually impeached. It's Clinton, or Trump.

One of them will go out there and negotiate with the heads of state of our allies, competitive trade partners and adversaries; propose and sign or veto legislation; stand in the bully pulpit of a superpower and try to lead the world to water it may not wish to drink. One of these two people will have that job, those tasks. He or she will command our military and carry responsibility to persuade the rest of the world not to deploy weaponry that might require us to respond in earth-consuming kind.

So there it is and the choice is up to each of us, presumably in self interest but with at least a passing thought of a few other people nearest us on the planet we all share.

Our mission, should we accept it, is to vote for her, vote for him, vote for a third (fourth, fifth) party, cast a blank ballot or "none of these candidates" if our state has that option, or to stay home and whistle past the graveyard of Don't Bother It Doesn't Matter Anyway.

NineteenDaysIfWeAreCounting.jpg

Me, I have that countdown gizmo on my desktop since we don't have early voting. But I have more than made up my mind now that whatever option I do pick on Nov 8th, it will not involve a vote that supports Donald Trump in any conceivable way.
 

s2mikey

macrumors 68020
Sep 23, 2013
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Upstate, NY
This is a bunch of uninformed nonsense.

The real problem is that politicians care more about forcing more testing on to students to "measure results", and teachers in chronically underfunded schools spend more time teaching for test taking than teaching to learn.
I dont think so. Im not saying that there arent political issues here too but overall the costs of those juicy pensions, incredible health care and gaurenteed raises starts to add up. You cant fire bad teachers either. Go research it. The process takes years and costs taxpayers a zillion dollars. So, rather than fire the clowns they just move them to another district or whatever. Its pretty bad.

Look - I aint saying its the easiest job or anything. Im sure school employees have their struggles. But they have a KILLER schedule and make good money for the time they put in. They also have bullet proof benefits and once they get tenure..... they are untouchable. Im sure a lot of the dollars we pour into education ends up NOT going to the kids but rather the adults. Thats not right. And its never enough money. They always want increases and Ive never seen a strike by education unions regarding money for the KIDS - its always a strike over pay, benefits or both. Hmmm. :rolleyes:
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
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I get that's a social media term but I'm not used to it, what does it mean in this context?
It refers to any attempt to mislead people or act in an intentionally offensive yet disingenuous manner. Overall it's pretty close to the internet definition.

For example, if I hosted a seminar on how to properly fold a tin foil hat, people would most likely call me a troll.
 

MadeTheSwitch

macrumors 6502a
Apr 20, 2009
799
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1) media is biased

2) Hillary has a history of getting questions before the debate starts, Brazile even stated that she gets the questions early sometimes in an email and was able to furnish Hillary with questions early on before.

3) She rigged the election against Bernie

4) She paid operatives to create violence at Trump rallies, something the left was crying about and the media ran with for days, they created the violence as many of us suspected.

5) videos show liberals setting up to participate in voter fraud, at the same time the left refuses to admit that you might be able to vote illegally because they have too much to gain.

6) Hillary should be in jail.
You're biased. :D

Yet he still beat all other republicans to get get where he is now. With more votes in the history of the republican party. In fact, he maybe the only outsider to break this corruption. Some people are still wearing diapers and its not the ones who are against corruption.
Because Republicans are easily misled. Blow a few dog whistles and they come running. Doesn't matter if the guy has values they hate. Doesn't matter if he says crude sexual things that go against their morals. Doesn't matter if he is an adulterer who goes against their religious beliefs. It doesn't matter if he fakes his own 2 Corinthians religion. Doesn't matter if he has done something illegal, is a con man or would even shoot someone on 5th avenue. Nope. Just blow those dog whistles and they come a running.

And it's most ironic to talk about someone who is so corrupt as he is, being the solution to corruption. Maybe the only one that can guard the henhouse from the foxes is a fox. :rolleyes:

I didn't realize the elections over, oops, its not. Just like the vote to succeed from the European Union, British voters didn't let people know how they are going to vote. They didn't want to be politically correct and be labeled as racist and other profanities.

They won by a landslide. I think we are going to see the same thing in the Presidential election.
You might see a landslide but it might not be in the direction you were hoping. See, there are these people called women. And they don't like what they hear out of Trump's mouth. They might tell their husbands they will go along with him and vote Trump, but once in the voting booth...surprise. There is your hidden secret vote.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,608
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USA
His latest

"Thank you Delaware County, Ohio! Remember- either we WIN this election, or we are going to LOSE this country! #DrainTheSwamp #TrumpPence16"
[doublepost=1476986790][/doublepost]
They won by a landslide. I think we are going to see the same thing in the Presidential election.
Wait... what landslide? This one?

Leave the European Union 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 48.11%

48.11% to 51.89% is a landslide in what world?
 

LizKat

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2004
5,265
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Catskill Mountains
Yet he still beat all other republicans to get get where he is now. With more votes in the history of the republican party. In fact, he maybe the only outsider to break this corruption. Some people are still wearing diapers and its not the ones who are against corruption.
The only outsider to break this corruption is not going to be some guy who won't release his tax returns and can't remember the names or faces of women he may have sexually assaulted (if they met his criteria for being worth the effort to grab their genitalia in the first place). I could go on about his donations to the NY AG while cases were pending, and that six-foot painting of himself that his foundation charitably invested in.... and the missing paperwork, but you get the picture.

By the way don't think NYS was doing a play for pay when they gave the foundation extra time to file that paperwork after they told him to cease and desist soliciting contributions or face charges of "continuing fraud". Granting an extension to file paperwork is a common courtesy; the press looked into that.​


So let's move back to the front end of your post.

Yes Trump won more popular votes than the rest of them. There's a reason for that and it had to do with the primary schedule, one made with the best of intentions but as it turns out, one that the Republicans will regret to their dying day which is apparently just down the road apiece now.

More votes in the history of the ever shrinking Republican Party is what he got.

Bernie Sanders did a more impressive job of showing how an unexpected candidate can trip up a party machine.

Bernie didn't win. Here's what he did instead. He strengthened the Democrats' platform in its appeal to progressive voters, and then got behind the nominee for the general election, even while simultaneously encouraging and leading his supporters to help bring progressive Democrats into the House and into state legislatures as well. He also got the Democrats to make their allocation of superdelegates more democratic for the next time around. Oh, and he showed the country an old Democratic Socialist geezer can play hoops too, it's not just Obama we got in the bench for basketball now.​

What has Mr. Trump done for the party that gave him the GOP nomination?

Trash-talked the Republican Speaker of the House. Dragged his feet to endorse that guy's own re-election race. Half-mocked two Senators he was practically forced to endorse when he should have endorsed them to begin with instead of mouthing off for weeks about how he "wasn't quite there yet..." and "had a few differences.."

Mr. Trump, and his supporters --more importantly they than he-- don't seem to get it that being President is one thing but having power to change the course of government requires the support of the legislature as well. Whatever one may think of the Republican Party, that was the vehicle Donald Trump needed to help steer or at least ride in, to be able to help his constituents reap any of the benefits he promised.

You can't steer a car to a desired destination by hitching a ride to a fancy nightclub but then setting the car on fire and leaping out with a few passengers to have a few beers at some dive and talk about how stupid that driver was not even getting them to the nightclub.

Donald Trump made it pretty clear he wouldn't even help haul the Republican Party out of the ditch into which he helped put it.

And the Republican party as it was, already fractured into two groups, could no longer win a general election in 2008 or 2012 even if they had more successfully banded together for that purpose.

Do you think the GOP leadership did not try extremely hard to make Obama a one-term president after their 2008 debacle? They began their effort to do so before the inauguration confetti was swept up. They failed. They didn't have the voters in the 2012 general election either.

So then came the runup to 2016. The GOP was laser focused on getting behind a nominee early in the season to cut down on intraparty strife aired on national TV. They wanted to avoid creating free ads for the Dems in the fall campaign. They had learned something from 2012 anyway.

But they hadn't figured on Trump popping up just as their heavier primary schedule (meant to boost a winner) managed to get behind this all time loser of a guy Trump. What to do, what to do. Well there was Cruz. And... Kasich, Rubio, Bush. The evangelical right and the not-conservative-enoughs? Hmm. Hmm. The hemming and hawing over alt-conservative tickets and steamrolling options and yada yada began. No one had the courage of any particular conviction. They crowned Donald.

So now they are trying to win a general election with a base of angry white xenophobes who drove away some of their more rational angry white cousins even before the convention had wrapped up. And forget about the GOP appealing to all those other demographics that Trump lit up to amuse his base during the primaries. And throw in Trump getting hit by an updated version of a bimbo card, and trying to flip it back on his opponent's husband, who... last time half the electorate of the USA checked.... is not actually running for office.

And now what... now the GOP has a shattered Presidential candidacy and three fragments of a shrinking party and they are a couple more years behind their intention to reach out to Hispanics. One does not know if they intended outreach to Muslims.

Plus they have all the reputational damage Donald Trump has left them: the sinking level of political discourse, the bigotry and misogyny no longer dogwhistled but chanted and plastered on T-shirts, the indescribable embarrassment of evangelical voters being pandered to in hopes they'd overlook the amoral (at best) aspects of Mr. Trump's character, the willingness of a party member to ascend to an international stage and trash talk war veterans, our military, our intelligence agencies, our alliances, our trading partners... the failure of their nominee to follow protocol and release his tax returns, the unprecedented personal attack on another Presidential candidate via Trump's having interrupted Clinton to describe her as "Such a nasty woman".

GOP to Donald Trump: "Please shut the lights if they're still on when you leave."
 

hulugu

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2003
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quae tangit perit Trump
1) media is biased

2) Hillary has a history of getting questions before the debate starts, Brazile even stated that she gets the questions early sometimes in an email and was able to furnish Hillary with questions early on before.

3) She rigged the election against Bernie

4) She paid operatives to create violence at Trump rallies, something the left was crying about and the media ran with for days, they created the violence as many of us suspected.

5) videos show liberals setting up to participate in voter fraud, at the same time the left refuses to admit that you might be able to vote illegally because they have too much to gain.

6) Hillary should be in jail.
1. Nope. For reasons both technical—there's hundreds of outlets run by thousands of people, do you really think there's one conspiracy among a reporter from the NYT, a television station anchor in St. Louis, and the radio host for the local NPR affiliate in Anchorage, Alaska—and ideological, the Associated Press has dug up more dirt about Hillary Clinton's emails than the lazy clot of vandals and balky dullards that populate a few conservative outlets.
2. Let's assume this is true. That just makes the game easier for her, but it doesn't make the debates. At best, it's deflat gate, sure it makes the ball easier to catch, but it doesn't make Trump's defense and offense the rhetorical equivalent of a second-string JV team. Trump has turned in a disastrous performance, uttering nonsense about abortion and "bad hombres" while, as SNL called it "stalking Hillary Clinton like a shark."
3. She didn't rig the election results. Bernie lost by millions of votes.
4. Supposedly paid people to protest the Trump rallies. But, Trump's own people reacted, attacking people in multiple occasions. I've been to many of them, Trump's supporters include mean, violent thugs. And, some of them, I assume are good people.
5. You don't understand this issue despite years of my posts refuting your argument, using both legal and technical arguments. You simply do not care about how the voting system works.
6. The head of the FBI disagrees, and not one Congressional investigation has led to prosecution by any legal authority. Wonder why?
 

haxrnick

macrumors 6502a
Aug 4, 2011
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Seattle
His latest

"Thank you Delaware County, Ohio! Remember- either we WIN this election, or we are going to LOSE this country! #DrainTheSwamp #TrumpPence16"
[doublepost=1476986790][/doublepost]

Wait... what landslide? This one?

Leave the European Union 17,410,742 51.89%
Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 48.11%

48.11% to 51.89% is a landslide in what world?
Clearly we see things bigly different. But my view is 1,269,501 voters is a pretty significant margin.
 

tshrimp

macrumors 6502
Mar 30, 2012
366
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Since 1988:
Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama-Clinton

How one can say with 100% certainty that the elections have not been tampered with is beyond me.
:). Nice. I still love the way that some say there are no issues with voter fraud, yet so many dead people are still voting. Maybe it is because they feel voting is so important, they are able to come back from the dead.
[doublepost=1476992057][/doublepost]
Only in America can a reality TV star with no legislative agenda, the temperament of a child and who can barely string together a coherent sentence come in second of the highest office in the land. How much greater could he possible make it?
I was about to give you a thumbs up, but it isn't over just yet. But the fact the he made it this far, and that Hillary was the democrats nominee shows how bad things have gotten.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
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Voter fraud crowd? A few weeks ago it was people shoeing up to impersonate others, now it's dead people voting. Where's the evidence?
 
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tshrimp

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Mar 30, 2012
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Voter fraud crowd? A few weeks ago it was people shoeing up to impersonate others, now it's dead people voting. Where's the evidence?
There is evidence every election on dead people voting. Does it not make your local news? BTW...I did forget to add that Trumps comment were so dumb on if he will concede, and Hillary's response was almost just as dumb. Gore did not destroy democracy, and I don't think Trump actions would either if he tried something crazy.

Edit: The link below has a "by state" at the bottom if you are interested in looking at your particular state.

https://ballotpedia.org/Dead_people_voting

"...That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave"
 
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MadeTheSwitch

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Apr 20, 2009
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"...That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave"
As many as? What is the "as few as" number?

Unless we go to some biometric fingerprint system that I am not sure even then would be foolproof, there are unfortunately people in both parties that will try to do stupid things. And it truly is a wasted effort. Their ability to change the outcome of a presidential election is extremely unlikely and there are too many people watching.
 
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Eraserhead

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Nov 3, 2005
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There is evidence every election on dead people voting. Does it not make your local news? BTW...I did forget to add that Trumps comment were so dumb on if he will concede, and Hillary's response was almost just as dumb. Gore did not destroy democracy, and I don't think Trump actions would either if he tried something crazy.

Edit: The link below has a "by state" at the bottom if you are interested in looking at your particular state.

https://ballotpedia.org/Dead_people_voting

"...That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave"
2600 votes doesn't swing a presidential election.
 

Moyank24

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2009
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in a New York State of mind
There is evidence every election on dead people voting. Does it not make your local news? BTW...I did forget to add that Trumps comment were so dumb on if he will concede, and Hillary's response was almost just as dumb. Gore did not destroy democracy, and I don't think Trump actions would either if he tried something crazy.

Edit: The link below has a "by state" at the bottom if you are interested in looking at your particular state.

https://ballotpedia.org/Dead_people_voting

"...That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave"
I once read a study on this type of "fraud" - I believe it was out of North Carolina, and the study found that most of the dead people who "voted" were actually the result of human error. IE - whomever is working the polls at the time literally crossed the wrong name off the list.