Difference in cost between Mac & Dell: $81

rnizlek

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 31, 2004
268
4
Washington, DC
I calculated the cost of a Dell Dimension system equivelent that that over a low-end eMac, and then added in the costs of having to equip the Dell with anti-virus software. The results are suprising: the difference over 3 years is only $81. For the ease of use and dependability of Mac OS, that's definately worth it. See attached.

http://www.ngcomputerhelp.com/costofmacs.pdf
 

jimsowden

macrumors 68000
Sep 6, 2003
1,766
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NY
Thats not even the most drastic. Compare the iMac middle 17" to a Dell with a widescreen, 17" digital display, 64 bit processor, serial ata HD, Dvd Burner, and add in Adobe Photoalbum and all that other crap that doesn't even touch iLife '04, plus the most hard core windows correcting software and the mac blows it away in price. Not only that, It is intangebaly better looking, so much more compact and elegant, you get an OS that is great to use for pretty much any person and doesn't crash or get viruses. I really don't understand how out market share is so low. We have the best advertising, best product, best loyality, best stores, best everything. What is peoples' problem?
 

musicpyrite

macrumors 68000
Jan 6, 2004
1,639
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Cape Cod
Nice comparison, but I do have some problems:
The Dell computer has DDR400 RAM, while the eMac has DDR333.
The Dell computer has a 48x CD burner, while the eMac has 32x.
A 2.8 GHz P IV is not comparable to a 1.25 GHz G4.
And Windows XP Pro is more comparable to OS X.
 

rnizlek

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 31, 2004
268
4
Washington, DC
I understand there are some differences. However, I was looking at the two computers solely from the cost perspective. The comparason was designed to reflect a potential buyer who was more concerned with cost/reliability than performance.

I was thinking of using XP Pro instead. However, the fact that I didn't compensates for the slight differences in RAM and CD burning speed that the Dell has over the eMac.
 

rnizlek

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 31, 2004
268
4
Washington, DC
jimsowden said:
What is peoples' problem?
Ignorance and the reluctance to learn a new OS. (Sure, they aren't that different, however there are a good number of people who simply "memorize" what to do. If you have to do one step slightly differently, they have to relearn the whole process over again.)
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
jimsowden said:
What is peoples' problem?
Also, I feel that...

1) There's a matter of perception (the amount of times I've heard that Macs are only good for graphics = countless)

2) Although the overall/total cost may seem to be similar, the store price is not. Most people want something pretty mid-range and if you look at the UK papers you can get something halfway OK mail-order with DVDwriter, 17" LCD screen and some kind of Lexmark inkjet for about £700 (about $850).

3) Apple's advertising is rubbish. They consistently promote an air of exclusivity... The Think Differerent campaign IMHO only spoke to a certain small segment of the buying public. Hell, most people don't know anything about computers and seek reassurance when they want to buy something, not to be told to think different...
 

7on

macrumors 601
Nov 9, 2003
4,940
0
Dress Rosa
rnizlek said:
Ignorance and the reluctance to learn a new OS. (Sure, they aren't that different, however there are a good number of people who simply "memorize" what to do. If you have to do one step slightly differently, they have to relearn the whole process over again.)
Yeah, so many people try to learn "steps" on how to operate the computer. What they need to do instead is "I want to burn a music CD." Even if they never did this before, they should equate the music note and picture of a CD in their dock as a way to do this. Hopefully they'll see the "BURN" icon in the upper right if they click on the albums (Probably the reason Apple still has those lame Smart albums installed by default).

Too many people get the notion "curiosity killed the cat." Well, I highly doubt that there's anything that would mess up your computer without a dialogue box popping up first. Many people seem to not be able to read. I mean, personally, when I find myself in a new situation - I look around and read everything in sight. 90% of the time when someone asks for help, I've never done it before. I just read dialogue boxes and do what they tell me too. Then the person whose computer I fixed usually exclaims with, "You're a genius! How'd ya do that?" I tell them, "because I can read."
 

jimsowden

macrumors 68000
Sep 6, 2003
1,766
16
NY
Blue Velvet said:
Also, I feel that...

1) There's a matter of perception (the amount of times I've heard that Macs are only good for graphics = countless)

2) Although the overall/total cost may seem to be similar, the store price is not. Most people want something pretty mid-range and if you look at the UK papers you can get something halfway OK mail-order with DVDwriter, 17" LCD screen and some kind of Lexmark inkjet for about £700 (about $850).

3) Apple's advertising is rubbish. They consistently promote an air of exclusivity... The Think Differerent campaign IMHO only spoke to a certain small segment of the buying public. Hell, most people don't know anything about computers and seek reassurance when they want to buy something, not to be told to think different...
I think apple advertising is some of the best ever. I would like to hear what you deem both noteworthy and effective.
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
It is amazing that Dell, in their servers, only gives you 128MB of RAM as a default. I was looking at them because I was bored, and was really shocked at that.

I agree, if you do a real comparison then you get much closer in price.
 

Sun Baked

macrumors G5
May 19, 2002
14,874
57
Heck, being different is a problem.

Think of all the problems people had in the switch from OS 9 to OS X.

Lot's of people didn't like it, because they didn't know where anything was -- which took people longer to do simple things.

But after 30-90 days -- people really didn't want to got back -- and people learned that could be more productive on OS X than OS 9.

We lost many scanners and printers in the switch, along with the programs that needed direct HW access.

On the switch from Windows to Mac is no real difference, it takes awhile to get used to the difference before you are comfortable.
 

rnizlek

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 31, 2004
268
4
Washington, DC
7on said:
Yeah, so many people try to learn "steps" on how to operate the computer. What they need to do instead is "I want to burn a music CD." Even if they never did this before, they should equate the music note and picture of a CD in their dock as a way to do this. Hopefully they'll see the "BURN" icon in the upper right if they click on the albums (Probably the reason Apple still has those lame Smart albums installed by default).

Too many people get the notion "curiosity killed the cat." Well, I highly doubt that there's anything that would mess up your computer without a dialogue box popping up first. Many people seem to not be able to read. I mean, personally, when I find myself in a new situation - I look around and read everything in sight. 90% of the time when someone asks for help, I've never done it before. I just read dialogue boxes and do what they tell me too. Then the person whose computer I fixed usually exclaims with, "You're a genius! How'd ya do that?" I tell them, "because I can read."
From my experience as a computer consultant, you are 100% right on.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
jimsowden said:
I think apple advertising is some of the best ever. I would like to hear what you deem both noteworthy and effective.
In the UK, Apple spends most of it's advertising money on billboards. We still occasionally see the iPod series on TV but not that often... the G5 TV spot got pulled here after 5-6 plays after complaints about it's accuracy.

IMHO, one TV campaign that has received good notices & effective results according to Marketing Weekly has been the Honda TV campaign. But I'm not sure whether you get that in the States... BMW have good spots too.

As you are a forum member here, it's not unreasonable to suspect that you know something about Macs which just illustrates my point that Apple's advertising is aimed at the cognoscenti, not the average person.

Furthermore, the prevalence and persistence of commonly-held myths by the general public about Macs illustrate a failure of Apple to communicate core messages about their computers... it's not all about pretty pictures.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
jimsowden said:
I think apple advertising is some of the best ever. I would like to hear what you deem both noteworthy and effective.
What advertising do you think is "some of the best ever"?

Take their TV ads, they fail to get across the benefits of owning a Mac. Look at the G5 ad with the kid getting blasted out of his house. The world's fastest personal computer. BFD, as most of the viewers are still saying but it can't connect to the Internet, there's no software available for it, they cost too much and all the other fallacies.

Think different? Blah, most of the people in this country are sheep. What benefit did Apple convey in that series of ads?

Original iMacs? Stones "She's A Rainbow" was catchy but other than them coming in colors, what benefit did that show?

Apple needs to stop preaching to the faithful and give others reasons to consider buying Macs. Actually having Macs on store shelves where people shop would be a good start but that's another issue.

I wish Apple would do ads that tout the benefits of the Mac that the average consumer could relate to. I would love to see a series of ads (split screen) of the typical family trying to do things on their Mac and Windows boxes.

Ad #1, taking it out of the box, setting it up and connecting to Internet. I know they did an ad like this before.

Ad #2, problems with pop-ups, virus, spyware vs. none on a Mac. Maybe Windows family calling to pay someone to come fix it.

Ad #3, Tout iLife! One ad showing benefits of iTunes; one for iPhoto.

Ad #4, 2 years later. Mac family still happily computing. Windows family shopping for a new PC.
 

EMKoper

macrumors regular
Dec 18, 2002
170
0
Stafford, VA
Ditto

Right on target, Rdowns...

I wish Apple would do ads that tout the benefits of the Mac that the average consumer could relate to. I would love to see a series of ads (split screen) of the typical family trying to do things on their Mac and Windows boxes.

Ad #1, taking it out of the box, setting it up and connecting to Internet. I know they did an ad like this before.

Ad #2, problems with pop-ups, virus, spyware vs. none on a Mac. Maybe Windows family calling to pay someone to come fix it.

Ad #3, Tout iLife! One ad showing benefits of iTunes; one for iPhoto.

Ad #4, 2 years later. Mac family still happily computing. Windows family shopping for a new PC.
I work in an office of engineers all of which, except I, are WinTel users. I still get uninformed comments like... "but you can't read or write Word documents" or "why spend $100 more for slow, proprietary hardware?" or (in light of the music capabilities and iPod popularity) "but the Mac software and iPod can't play mp3 music files.**" Even for well educated folks the foundational message of Macs are good, they are compatable with the rest of the computer world, and there are some cons, but there many pros as well has not gotten to them... at all! I think it is somewhat an advertising embarrassment for Apple and at this rate, they are destined to stay at the low end of the computer pecking order.

(** Many of them seem to think the OS and the iPod can "only" play AAC formatted music/audio files.)
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
73
Solon, OH
EMKoper said:
Right on target, Rdowns...



I work in an office of engineers all of which, except I, are WinTel users. I still get uninformed comments like... "but you can't read or write Word documents" or "why spend $100 more for slow, proprietary hardware?" or (in light of the music capabilities and iPod popularity) "but the Mac software and iPod can't play mp3 music files.**" Even for well educated folks the foundational message of Macs are good, they are compatable with the rest of the computer world, and there are some cons, but there many pros as well has not gotten to them... at all! I think it is somewhat an advertising embarrassment for Apple and at this rate, they are destined to stay at the low end of the computer pecking order.

(** Many of them seem to think the OS and the iPod can "only" play AAC formatted music/audio files.)
I couldn't agree more. What's up with Apple's advertising strategy? It's just - horrid when it comes to promoting Macs and the Mac OS. Apple, listen to us - you need to show people USING your Macs in order to get people to get interested and buy them!
 

Kingsnapped

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2003
929
1
Los Angeles, CA
wrldwzrd89 said:
you need to show people USING your Macs in order to get people to get interested and buy them!
It's hard to make a 30 second TV spot that's visually appealing that would showcase OSX. Are you going to have just a video of the screen going on to give people the technical side, or people playing with a white mouse and grinning like idiots?

I don't think apple want's to make a cheesy "Dude, you should get a mac" ad.
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,106
73
Solon, OH
Kingsnapped said:
It's hard to make a 30 second TV spot that's visually appealing that would showcase OSX. Are you going to have just a video of the screen going on to give people the technical side, or people playing with a white mouse and grinning like idiots?

I don't think apple want's to make a cheesy "Dude, you should get a mac" ad.
The simplest way I could think of is to compare Mac OS X Mail, Outlook Express for Windows, and Outlook for Windows at getting new mail and reading the first message, showcasing things such as attachments and viruses. That should get Apple's point across in 20 seconds or less, leaving time for the Apple logo and other information.
 

johnnyjibbs

macrumors 68030
Sep 18, 2003
2,958
119
London, UK
Apple just needs some ads that get across the simplicity of Mac OS X and also the fact that you don't have to worry about viruses, etc. Maybe even a British Airways type advert to show people that Macs aren't as expensive as people may think.

I think, on mid to high range systems, Macs are cheaper, if you configure the PC to as close as possible to the Mac system, even Dells.

However, on low end systems, Dell is always going to have the edge, but Macs aren't too bad - I think the £550 eMac is brilliant value. At the end of the day, the target audience for that Mac is not going to know the difference or care about having DDR333 instead of DDR400 RAM, etc. Oh, and Windows XP Pro is in no way a match for Mac OS X. I would say that a 1.25GHz G4 is not a bad approximation of an entry level 2.8GHz P4 system though, seeing as my 1GHz G4 holds its own against our Dell 2.4GHz P4 system.
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,077
1
London, England
jimsowden said:
I think apple advertising is some of the best ever. I would like to hear what you deem both noteworthy and effective.
The only ad I've ever seen for the PM G5 was cool, but didn't hit home any reasons why anyone should want one what-so-ever, it was COMPLETELY in-effective.

Yeah, great, a guy gets blown through a wall because of the "power" of his new G5. Nobody cares. They could, and should be much for effective with getting their strong points across in advertising.

I haven't seen a single thing for the iMac G5 (what should be their main product line to push as it is the consumer desktop machine).

*speaking from a UK perspective here, I have no idea how they are state side.
 

Edot

macrumors 6502
Jan 29, 2002
432
0
NJ
edesignuk said:
I haven't seen a single thing for the iMac G5 (what should be their main product line to push as it is the consumer desktop machine).
Why advertise when they can't even keep up with demand as it is. If someone sees a commercial they don't want to wait 3-4 weeks before they get one. They are getting TONS of media/press attention on the iMac to help fuel demand. I do think they should advertise if they can get the shipping times closer to a week though.