Disney to Workers: Drop Dead! But First, Train Your Foreign Replacements.

aaronvan

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.Andy

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Thanks to the massive issuance of H1-B visas, thousands of Americans are losing their jobs to foreigners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html

The Democratic Party's love affair with unrestricted Third World immigration (legal and illegal) coupled with multinational corporations' desire for cheap labor is killing the American worker.
Are american workers really so poorly skilled and have such a poor work ethic that they aren't competitive when challenged domestically with workers from the "third world"?
 

obeygiant

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Do people in Australia ever read the article posted in the OP?




--Instead, about 250 Disney employees were told in late October that they would be laid off. Many of their jobs were transferred to immigrants on temporary visas for highly skilled technical workers, who were brought in by an outsourcing firm based in India. Over the next three months, some Disney employees were required to train their replacements to do the jobs they had lost.

“I just couldn’t believe they could fly people in to sit at our desks and take over our jobs exactly,” said one former worker, an American in his 40s who remains unemployed since his last day at Disney on Jan. 30. “It was so humiliating to train somebody else to take over your job. I still can’t grasp it.”

Disney executives said that the layoffs were part of a reorganization, and that the company opened more positions than it eliminated.

Too often, critics say, the visas are being used to bring in immigrants to do the work of Americans for less money, with laid-off American workers having to train their replacements.

The program has created a highly lucrative business model of bringing in cheaper H-1B workers to substitute for Americans,” said Ronil Hira, a professor of public policy at Howard University who studies visa programs and has testified before Congress about H-1B visas.--
 

.Andy

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Do you really need to ask if American labor unions are competitive at $0.60/hour? Seriously?
No. Read what I posted again. Immigrants from the "third world" are not getting paid 0.60/hour to work domestically in the US.

Again if local workers aren't competitive enough and can be outsource overseas surely this is the Libertarian wet dream. It is very interesting to see so many socialists coming out of the woodwork in favour of larger government, more tariffs, and more barriers to trade. It is amazing what a bit of xenophobia can accomplish.
 
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Happybunny

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No. Read what I posted again. Immigrants from the "third world" are not getting paid 0.60/hour to work domestically in the US.

Again if local workers aren't competitive enough and can be outsource overseas surely this is the Libertarian wet dream. It is very interesting to see so many socialists coming out of the woodwork in favour of larger government, more tariffs, and more barriers to trade. It is amazing what a bit of xenophobia can accomplish.
Oh the smell of double standards, the cry from free marketeers when suddenly they find that it's their jobs and living standards on the line.

It's stories like this that just prove that the Libertarian idea only works on paper.
 

aaronvan

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No. Read what I posted again. Immigrants from the "third world" are not getting paid 0.60/hour to work domestically in the US.

Again if local workers aren't competitive enough and can be outsource overseas surely this is the Libertarian wet dream. It is very interesting to see so many socialists coming out of the woodwork in favour of larger government, more tariffs, and more barriers to trade. It is amazing what a bit of xenophobia can accomplish.
No, they making $0.60/hour in China. However, H1-B visa holders do work for far less than Americans and they are stealing American jobs.

You conflation of libertarians and socialists makes zero sense.
 

Happybunny

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No, they making $0.60/hour in China. However, H1-B visa holders do work for far less than Americans and they are stealing American jobs.

You conflation of libertarians and socialists makes zero sense.
IMO I think that your are wrong, that's not stealing, that's just market forces.

Wall street and the stockholders love it, go Capitalism.
 

.Andy

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No, they making $0.60/hour in China.
This isn't what your thread is about or what I posted.

aaronvan said:
However, H1-B visa holders do work for far less than Americans and they are stealing American jobs.
So your claim is that American's aren't able to hold their jobs when faced by unskilled, relatively poorly educated individuals from the "3rd world?". That's a pretty damming assessment of the U.S. education system and workforce.

Aaronvan said:
You conflation of libertarians and socialists makes zero sense.
You seem to not understand the term "conflate". I was also clearly referring to big "L" Libertarians.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

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No. Read what I posted again. Immigrants from the "third world" are not getting paid 0.60/hour to work domestically in the US.

Again if local workers aren't competitive enough and can be outsource overseas surely this is the Libertarian wet dream. It is very interesting to see so many socialists coming out of the woodwork in favour of larger government, more tariffs, and more barriers to trade. It is amazing what a bit of xenophobia can accomplish.
I'm unable to disambiguate the irony, sarcasm, agreement, etc. from this post. Can you please rewrite it for me to be literal, as if for a man from Mars?
 
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lowendlinux

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This isn't what your thread is about or what I posted.


So your claim is that American's aren't able to hold their jobs when faced by unskilled, relatively poorly educated individuals from the "3rd world?". That's a pretty damming assessment of the U.S. education system and workforce.

You seem to not understand the term "conflate". I was also clearly referring to big "L" Libertarians.
H1-B is not for unskilled labor it's supposed to be for specialty occupations where the skill set doesn't exist locally. It was intended to be a stop gap to keep business' running, but what it's turned into is yet another way to reduce labor costs. I have no issues with H1B used as it's intended I do have issues with it as it's used now.
 

Eraserhead

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No, they making $0.60/hour in China. However, H1-B visa holders do work for far less than Americans and they are stealing American jobs.

You conflation of libertarians and socialists makes zero sense.
So you're a socialist?
 

Happybunny

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H1-B is not for unskilled labor it's supposed to be for specialty occupations where the skill set doesn't exist locally. It was intended to be a stop gap to keep business' running, but what it's turned into is yet another way to reduce labor costs. I have no issues with H1B used as it's intended I do have issues with it as it's used now.
I have to ask do you HATE America, are you some type of communist, are you trying to destroy the American dream.
If Wall Street and the Stockholders like the idea of CUTTING costs who are you to say that they are wrong, some type of socialist rat, thats who.

If they are unemployed, they are just moochers, they should pull them selves up by there boot straps, move to where there is work, and stop complaining.

Low wages are what built America, think of the Gilded Age.

Think of the poor down trodden CEO’s who will miss their bonuses, think of all those Hedge Fund managers who will miss out on their target growth.
 

vrDrew

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The Democratic Party's love affair with unrestricted Third World immigration (legal and illegal) coupled with multinational corporations' desire for cheap labor is killing the American worker.
In all fairness I think you are conflating several different issues here. Democratic support for initiatives such as the DREAM Act (which would grant conditional residency and offer a passage to citizenship for alien residents who had come to this country as children) is completely separate from the discussion of H-1B Visas, which are supposed to be for highly-skilled technology workers.

From my reading of this story, it appears as if Disney mis-handled this reorganization; and perhaps exploited a loophole in the H-1B visa program. My understanding of the H-1B program is that it is only for instances where qualified US workers were unavailable - which is clearly not the case here.

More to the point, I see that Senator Bill Nelson (a Democrat) has called for an inquiry into how the H-1B Visa program may have been misused at Disney.

In a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, Mr. Nelson asked him to examine “potential misuses” of a visa program known as H-1B.
 

sim667

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This is to be expected in america's vacuous capitalist society......

Repress workers rights, maximise profits margins, let the bourgieous flash the cash in an orgy of spending (I was watching an american car auction last night, they were treating it like a sport).
 

Happybunny

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Sure, why not?



Or when there is a foreign worker willing to work for much less than an American worker.
But hey at least the job stays in the USA.:D

Which means that taxes are paid, the corporation has lower costs, Wall Street And Investors happy.

Go Capitalism.
 
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snberk103

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Seems like an easy fix to the legislation: Company must certify there have been no lay-offs of employees with similar skills, the company must show evidence of trying to hire at the local/state/national level, the and that the job has been vacant for a period of time (for an established company - obviously a new or growing company would need to comply with only the first two criteria.)

I'm not in US and therefore not familiar with the provisions of the visa. Perhaps the law already calls for these protections - in which case... who is overseeing the program?
 

Happybunny

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Seems like an easy fix to the legislation: Company must certify there have been no lay-offs of employees with similar skills, the company must show evidence of trying to hire at the local/state/national level, the and that the job has been vacant for a period of time (for an established company - obviously a new or growing company would need to comply with only the first two criteria.)

I'm not in US and therefore not familiar with the provisions of the visa. Perhaps the law already calls for these protections - in which case... who is overseeing the program?
That really doesn't sound like the FREE market.
Corporations should be able to cut costs as they see fit, big government is trying to stifle the real innovation that made America the great country it was in the Glided Age.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

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Seems like an easy fix to the legislation: Company must certify there have been no lay-offs of employees with similar skills, the company must show evidence of trying to hire at the local/state/national level, the and that the job has been vacant for a period of time (for an established company - obviously a new or growing company would need to comply with only the first two criteria.)

I'm not in US and therefore not familiar with the provisions of the visa. Perhaps the law already calls for these protections - in which case... who is overseeing the program?
Well, as a matter of fact, those protections do exist. The problem is that there usually is no real penalty for the employer, even when the violation is blatantly obvious, as it is in this case. Department of Labor oversees the program.

Paul Donnelly, in a 2002 article in Computerworld, cited Milton Friedman as stating that the H-1B program acts as a subsidy for corporations.[57] Others holding this view include Dr. Norman Matloff, who testified to the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Immigration on the H-1B subject.[58] Matloff's paper for the University of Michigan Journal of Law Reform claims that there has been no shortage of qualified American citizens to fill American computer-related jobs, and that the data offered as evidence of American corporations needing H-1B visas to address labor shortages was erroneous.[59] The United States General Accounting Office found in a report in 2000 that controls on the H-1B program lacked effectiveness.[60] The GAO report's recommendations were subsequently implemented.

High-tech companies often cite a tech-worker shortage when asking Congress to raise the annual cap on H-1B visas, and have succeeded in getting various exemptions passed. The American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA), described the situation as a crisis, and the situation was reported on by the Wall Street Journal, BusinessWeek and Washington Post. Employers applied pressure on Congress.[61] Microsoft chairman Bill Gates testified in 2007 on behalf of the expanded visa program on Capitol Hill, "warning of dangers to the U.S. economy if employers can't import skilled workers to fill job gaps".[61] Congress considered a bill to address the claims of shortfall[62] but in the end did not revise the program.[63]

According to a study conducted by John Miano and the Center for Immigration Studies, there is no empirical data to support a claim of employee worker shortage.[64] Citing studies from Duke, Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Georgetown University and others, critics have also argued that in some years, the number of foreign programmers and engineers imported outnumbered the number of jobs created by the industry.[65] Organizations have also posted hundreds of first hand accounts of H-1B Visa Harm reports directly from individuals negatively impacted by the program, many of whom are willing to speak with the media.[66]

Studies carried out from the 1990s through 2011 by researchers from Columbia U, Computing Research Association (CRA), Duke U, Georgetown U, Harvard U, National Research Council of the NAS, RAND Corporation, Rochester Institute of Technology, Rutgers U, Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, Stanford U, SUNY Buffalo, UC Davis, UPenn Wharton School, Urban Institute, and U.S. Dept. of Education Office of Education Research & Improvement have reported that the U.S. has been producing sufficient numbers of able and willing STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) workers, while several studies from Hal Salzman, B. Lindsay Lowell, Daniel Kuehn, Michael Teitelbaum and others have concluded that the U.S. has been employing only 30% to 50% of its newly degreed able and willing STEM workers to work in STEM fields. A 2012 IEEE announcement of a conference on STEM education funding and job markets stated "only about half of those with under-graduate STEM degrees actually work in the STEM-related fields after college, and after 10 years, only some 8% still do".[67]

Ron Hira, a professor of public policy at Howard University and a longtime critic of the H-1B visa program, recently called the IT talent shortage "imaginary,"[68] a front for companies that want to hire relatively inexpensive foreign guest workers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#No_labor_shortages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa
 

gkarris

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Seems like an easy fix to the legislation: Company must certify there have been no lay-offs of employees with similar skills, the company must show evidence of trying to hire at the local/state/national level, the and that the job has been vacant for a period of time (for an established company - obviously a new or growing company would need to comply with only the first two criteria.)

I'm not in US and therefore not familiar with the provisions of the visa. Perhaps the law already calls for these protections - in which case... who is overseeing the program?
Do what companies do now - make the job requirements harder for Americans. Require fluency in Sanskrit - problem solved... :eek:
 

Zombie Acorn

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Having experienced employees train h1Bs as their replacements flies in the face of the purpose of the visa. There should be an investigation for sure and heavy fines/restriction from using this program in the future.
 
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Happybunny

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Having experienced employees train h1Bs as their replacements flies in the face of the purpose of the visa. There should be an investigation for sure and heavy fines/restriction from using this program in the future.

I have to ask doesn’t that defeat the purpose of the free market.

Surely corporations should be able to maximise profits, while minimising costs without government interference.

Other wise you might as well live in a communistic or socialist nation.

Why should shareholders miss out on profits, because some over paid person wants to keep his job?
 
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jkcerda

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I have to ask doesn’t that defeat the purpose of the free market.

Surely corporations should be able to maximise profits, while minimising costs without government interference.

Other wise you might as well live in a communistic or socialist nation.

Why should shareholders miss out on profits, because some over paid person wants to keep his job?
the GOVT granted the visas, so how is that "free" market?
 
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