Do people actually want an honest President?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jnpy!$4g3cwk, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #1
    A great many threads recently have been directly or indirectly about the honesty of politicians. That reminded me of the following chart (or a very similar one) that I saw a few months ago. Here it is again:

    [​IMG]
    Source: http://www.attn.com/stories/10483/chart-compares-presidential-candidates-honesty

    Trump, of course, is the winner on this chart. Back in their day, Carter and Dukakis were laughed at by some for being boy scouts, while Reagan said, "How can a president not be an actor?" Do most people actually want an honest president, or, a president who is good at acting honest?

    An older article about it:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...nt_must_understand_his_political_moment_.html
     
  2. forcesteeler macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Americans want someone that will tell them what they want to hear.
     
  3. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #3
    Yes, Trump has a problem with talking out both sides of his bum at the same time. Still: #MAGA


    Partial assortment of those proverbially gunning for him

    donald-trump.jpg
     
  4. steve23094, Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016

    steve23094 macrumors 68000

    steve23094

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    #4
    That's true anywhere. e.g. In the UK the National Health Service is a sacred cow. Drugs and treatments are getting more expensive and that's combined with an aging population. UK plc just can't afford to maintain it in it's current state. The options are to raise more taxes or to make cut backs, mention either of those two things and there is a public outcry and you will never get elected.

    The country is incapable of having a rational conversation about it.

    I suppose there is one caveat to the point about raising more tax revenue. If the distribution of wealth was fairer it's possible there would be enough in the pot to pay for what we need. I have never understood why somebody that earns £20k (i.e. 'f' all) pays 25% of their total income as tax to take home even less than 'f' all, whereas somebody that earns £20mil (i.e. lots) pays an effective tax rate of 5% due to tax avoidance to still take home lots. 'Yes' the high earner pays a larger total tax bill, but why leave the £20k earner scrambling to eke out a living, whereas the high earner would still be rich with more than enough money left over if they paid a higher or at least the same percentage of their income?

    Note: tax figures are merely representative to illustrate my point.
     
  5. Shirasaki macrumors 603

    Shirasaki

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    #5
    Being honest or not, a politician just need to swing his/her opinions and twist their words to satisfy people, even if the promise is mostly empty. Politics is the art of manipulating human heart and mind, and ultimately controlling them.
    My thought of those politicians. I hate politics.
     
  6. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #6
    The unaffordability is patently not true the NHS spends less as a percentage of GDP than as far as I know any other similarly developed country and could easily afford to double the amount invested simply by cancelling the renewed nuclear subs and weapons not to mention the many other dick waving expenditures which are the equivalent of pissing the money up against a wall.Doubling the input money would still be cheaper than the US system.
     
  7. steve23094 macrumors 68000

    steve23094

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    #7
    It's similar to other countries, and the same problem exists in other countries. Maintaining that current level has already resulted in cuts and debt, so the public has a decision to make whether we spend more to maintain services at their current levels, increase it or scale back. But that decision should be discussed rationally.

    https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/health-care-spending-compared
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    The question for me is who is more likely to break the deadlock in American politics. And that looked likely to be Clinton. But now that looks less likely as she looks like she may well be empeached.

    Trump will obviously only unite congress against him.
     
  9. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #9
    Politifacts must of passed watching Hilary's investigation into her email server. Telling the FBI 40 times she could not recall among other discretions.
     
  10. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #10
    The only two countries that spend a similarly low amount are Norway and Luxembourg both countries which have a huge GDP in relation to their size.
    I would hope what we were having was a rational discussion.
     
  11. steve23094, Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016

    steve23094 macrumors 68000

    steve23094

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    #11
    Ireland, Australia, Finland, Spain and Italy are all lower.

    The NHS needs additional funds now and cuts in future just to maintain itself http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37824621. Medicine is becoming more expensive not cheaper and the population is ageing, so we need to decide at what level we want funding in the future. Every time NICE decides against funding a treatment there is an outcry, just as there is consternation when a treatment is approved by one CCG and not another. It would be nice if we could afford everything but we can't.
     
  12. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #12
    Good question.

    I think it depends on whether the 'lies' are used for good or evil.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 1, 2016 ---
    It's a bit like working in Sales, isn't it? :)
     
  13. steve23094 macrumors 68000

    steve23094

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    #13
    Ahhh. But then who decides what is good and what's evil? Sometimes it's grey.
     
  14. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #14
    Like always, the unbearably loud people decide. ;).

    Not a great answer, I know, but there you have it.
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    I see we are presumably looking at the same source and I misread it.Ireland,Oz,Finland,Spain and Italy are indeed lower (very marginally) for total cost but they all have larger private health care and smaller public again it's Norway and the Netherlands which are directly comparable Norway spends a little more and the Netherlands a lot more.
    I agree healthcare costs are escalating for various reasons including a aging population and we must face up to whether we spend money on making and keeping people healthy or pay for weapons which either won't be used or will be used to kill mainly innocent people. Tax evasion if tackled could provide the money several times over if chased up with the urgency it should be.
    One of the good things about the NHS is it is trying to concentrate on prevention and not on heroic rescue cures which cost a fortune and effect very few, that is the way forward and not investing more and more money in drugs they may help a handful of people but leaves uneffected the great majority.
     
  16. thermodynamic, Nov 1, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016

    thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #16
    Yes, Politifact. Choice questions, especially for when a candidate forgets context or - even better - says nothing about a solution. Spin on some of their reasons behind "half true", "mostly false", and so on...

    Wouldn't it be cheaper to exterminate everybody, and in ways that nobody with IQs lower than 110 could begin to figure out? Can't be too hard, I'd wager... But isn't it all about the money and how much corporate welfare the market will take while jacking up prices to bathe in the profiteering, right? The market ignores so many factors to begin with and pretends customers get all its money free from the boxes at every street corner. Then again, without people the market is equally worthless and pointless. The creation cannot live without its creator despite thinking the creator isn't needed.

    (Then again, all the pro-life people and Christians would be truly outraged at such a notion of slaughter...)

    --- Post Merged, Nov 1, 2016 ---
    Oh, I apologize to Politifact -

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...2/barack-obama/hillary-went-the-wal-mart-way/

    They surely were not wrong at all when they wrote that? Maybe MadeTheSwitch can tell more since I asked him (accidentally) about that issue yesterday... haven't seen if he responded yet but I assume he hadn't (when I ought to ask...) But Politifact isn't perfect and sometimes it spins at 7200RPM, so I do presume they're fudging with Obama's own slam at Hillary.
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    She hasn't made that many statements on it. And saying "I cannot recall" isn't a lie.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 1, 2016 ---
    Another issue is people going to A and E with a bruised toe.
     
  18. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #18
    Didn't work out too well for the Golgafrinchams, did it?
     
  19. Gjwilly macrumors 68030

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    #19
    As soon as I read it, the Golgafrinchams story made perfect sense to me.
    The longer I live, the easier it is to believe.

    We ARE the B Ark.
     
  20. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    Pulling one from the Gipper's playbook.;) I believed Ronny Ray-Gun when he said it during the Iran-Contra investigation. And word around the campfire at the time was the old man may have had Alzheimer's in the latter part of this term.

    Saying you don't remember when you do, is a lie. The thing is, we don't know if Hillary remembers or not. So she's either lying or has dementia. Neither is a good thing in my book.

    Yes, *I* want an honest President; to bad we can't elect the dead. Honest Abe 2016.:p
     
  21. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

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    #21
    Yes, Hilary's famous selective memory. Even though during her debates she seems to remember everything during the debate prep.

    She has to sign a document acknowledging her training on classified materials. Also that she has no conflict of interest being Secretary of State and the Clinton Foundation. But of course, those documents have probably mysteriously disappeared.

    But with the case reopened and 650,000 emails may help jog her memory.
     
  22. jnpy!$4g3cwk thread starter macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #22
    According to some, John Adams may have been the most honest President we've had. Too bad that in his day he was considered jealous, petty, argumentative, disagreeable, and lacking in charisma.
     
  23. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Are the globalist elites mostly Jews?
     
  24. Shirasaki macrumors 603

    Shirasaki

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    #24
    Yeah sort of. But that is one core part of the career being politician.
     
  25. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #25
    That's fine. Al the recent legislation (ACA, Patriot Act) has just F***ed the American people. Bring on the gridlock. Let the bloated government just worry about keeping the people and our borders safe. The gov needs to just leave us alone already.
     

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