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Do you think that by not including chargers in the box, Apple is setting people up to problems?(because people are still using no-name USB-C chargers)

philrock

Contributor
Jul 5, 2015
154
55
Oxnard, CA
That an interesting sentiment when it comes to those who don't any USB-C power adapters or USB-A to Lightning cables.
True, I'm sure there are a small number of first time iPhone buyers that don't have a USB-A to lightning cable. They are in the extreme minority though and probably less likely to be upset about this than the more vocal repeat buyers.

Apple also has a history of eliminating "standard" features (floppy drives, cd drives, audio jacks, USB-A ports, etc.) so I don't see how this is different. Apple is simply pushing the market like it ALWAYS has. In this case, I would say they are late to the game as just about every other Tier 1 brand has been using USB-C for a while.

Although I have dozens of USB-A to lightning cables and bricks, I had no USB-C brick. My wireless charger doesn't work with my new iPhone either. Progress isn't cheap.
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
50,837
19,021
Apple is simply pushing the market like it ALWAYS has.
It's easy to push the market when it not only doesn't cost anything to you but also saves you money and even makes more money in addition through some additional accessory sales (while the burden of that "push" is shifted onto someone else).

At least at times in the past Apple actually took consumers a bit more into consideration like when the headphone jack was removed, not only were new headphones included but even an adapter to make old headphones work was included too.
 
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Septembersrain

Contributor
Dec 14, 2013
4,027
5,020
Texas
I think including a cable that will not work with a majority of the prior bricks was a bit ridiculous.

If they had not included that, I think people would still be upset but it wouldn't be so confusing. They get out a brick and realise hey! This is USB-C! It doesn't work!

I think a lot of third party sellers are going to benefit and who knows how this will affect the batteries health in the long haul.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,222
12,398
Gotta be in it to win it
The premise of the title of the thread? No. Up until now, that people have damaged their charging bricks and needed to buy a new one and may have purchased a third party brick is the same scenario. I believe Apple believes the universe of these people who are totally out of the ecosystem is a small percentage that won't move the needle.

Even if these small percentage are disenfranchised, it is what it is.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
13,520
11,942
Singapore
So why couldn't Apple soften it like they did when they removed the headphone jack and included an adapter on top of new headphones? Why not include the adapter at least for the first year or so when they switch to include a different cable? Seems like all the gains are on Apple's side of things and there isn't much on consumer side and for some there's pain.
The two are not mutually exclusive. This is a problem that's not going to affect everyone, and yes, I acknowledge that it can be frustrating for the people that it does impact, but the gist of arguments like this is that it essentially boils down to people whining that Apple won't give them nice stuff for free.

Because if people are going to posit the inclusion of a usb-c to lightning cable as some sort of conspiracy by Apple to reverse-psycho them into buying a 20w charging brick, then I say maybe subsequent iPhones shouldn't even come with the charging cable at all. Can't complain that you don't have the right brick for it then.

It's clear that this year's iPhone has been more expensive to make, between its new form factor and more costly components like 5g and the OLED display for the base model. Just because Apple is in a position to gain financially from not bundling a charging brick or EarPods doesn't mean that the environmental message doesn't hold water.

First off, I maintain that by between the exclusion of accessories and the lower shipping fees, the iPhone 12 is cheaper than it otherwise would have been. Apple has also lowered the price of the 20w charging brick and EarPods for users who still want one, which shows they are not deaf to the sentiment on the ground.

That said, I do concur that Apple still has a long way to go (its packaging remains wasteful, especially all the included paperwork), iPhone repairability remains difficult, and it doesn't look like the iPhone will support usb-c anytime soon. However, given the scale Apple operates at, even the smallest move ends up having a very huge impact on the environment, and I feel this should be acknowledged. Especially given their very public goal of achieving carbon neutrality by 2030.

Ultimately, Apple is still a publicly-traded company beholden to shareholders, and I think Tim Cook has done an excellent job managing both fronts, ie: simultaneously align the incentives of a profit-maximising corporate entity with the public.

Not to mention that in the process of doing so, Apple has also set the standard for countless other android OEMs to do likewise as well. We can mock Samsung for when they do decide to exclude the charging brick from their next smartphone, but we can't deny that it's a positive step in environmental sustainability, and a net benefit overall. I would really like to see more OEMs jump on board this bandwagon.

But like I said, it's short term pain (for the consumers who need to pony up a little bit of extra cash for extra accessories) for long term gain (better for the environment, the charging brick is there for the next few years, hardware stays affordable, and shareholders don't complain).
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
50,837
19,021
The two are not mutually exclusive. This is a problem that's not going to affect everyone, and yes, I acknowledge that it can be frustrating for the people that it does impact, but the gist of arguments like this is that it essentially boils down to people whining that Apple won't give them nice stuff for free.
Well, some who might not really are about it might view it that way, while the reality of it is that consumers are no longer getting something that was always part of the purchase and thus getting less than before (in particular when the other connecting piece that is provided is also being changed to something else).
 
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flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,577
2,453
United States
Or they can invent biodegradable chargers and iPhones...

Hmm... returning my new iPhone because it unexpectedly biodegraded too early. Standing at the Apple Store insisting that I cannot return it because it disintegrated on me last night while I slept. I demand a refund or replacement. I expected it to last more than a week. Biodegrade-gate starts flooding the Internet.

You know there’d be at least one person try it.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Penryn
Nov 30, 2013
24,222
12,398
Gotta be in it to win it
Well, some who might not really are about it might view it that way, while the reality of it is that consumers are no longer getting something that was always part of the purchase and thus getting less than before (in particular when the other connecting piece that is provided is also being changed to something else).
With the number of Apple customers approaching the high hundreds of millions, there are those many different opinions of everything Apple. And of course each customer believes their viewpoint to be correct.
 
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BlueMoose

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 23, 2019
130
51
Hmm... returning my new iPhone because it unexpectedly biodegraded too early. Standing at the Apple Store insisting that I cannot return it because it disintegrated on me last night while I slept. I demand a refund or replacement. I expected it to last more than a week. Biodegrade-gate starts flooding the Internet.

You know there’d be at least one person try it.

but will it blend?


(caution: some people may find blending of iPhones 12 disturbing)
 
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