does anyone here deny climate change?

macmee

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Original poster
Dec 13, 2008
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Canada
I have never met someone who legitimately denies climate change is real

since the republicans seem to deny that it's real and since there seems to be some republicans around, I was wondering if anyone wants to make a serious argument justifying why they think climate change is fake.

Alternatively, are there any republican or trump supporters here who think climate change is real but can explain why they still support republicans/trump anyway?
 

jpietrzak8

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2010
1,053
6,082
Dayton, Ohio
I'd like to bring up one point which seems to get missed in all of the "Climate Change" rhetoric. I don't really care much one way or another about the climate itself; but, I can't imagine that anyone has missed the fact that human beings are as a whole spending incredible amounts of effort to pull carbon out of the Earth's crust and blast it into the atmosphere and onto the surface. In short, pollution.

The Earth's temperature may go up and down, and just as there are ways that we may be helping it to go up now (greenhouse effect), there may be ways we can cause it to go back down too. But reorganizing the Earth's crust in such a way as to pull deeply entrenched carbon out and redeposit it on the surface is something that, I think, will be causing more significant long-term repercussions, even if they are fairly subtle at the moment...

Anyway, just my personal worry. Now, back to the shorter-term repercussions of atmospheric CO2 levels...
 

Shirasaki

macrumors G3
May 16, 2015
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For me I only care about one thing: how high temperature the summer would be? 40C? 60C? If so then I just bs all "climate change is fake" claim. Oh btw, now it is 37C in Sydney.
 

Snoopy4

macrumors 6502a
Dec 29, 2014
661
2,921
I have never met someone who legitimately denies climate change is real

since the republicans seem to deny that it's real and since there seems to be some republicans around, I was wondering if anyone wants to make a serious argument justifying why they think climate change is fake.

Alternatively, are there any republican or trump supporters here who think climate change is real but can explain why they still support republicans/trump anyway?
Yes, the climate changes. We'll no doubt freeze over again one day. Or maybe get so hot again that Florida is under water again. The later will suck. We like Disney World.
 

jpietrzak8

macrumors 65816
Feb 16, 2010
1,053
6,082
Dayton, Ohio
For me I only care about one thing: how high temperature the summer would be? 40C? 60C? If so then I just bs all "climate change is fake" claim. Oh btw, now it is 37C in Sydney.
Ah, well, don't worry about it then. At most, the forecasts (so far as I've seen) are for an average increase in the low single digits (centigrade) up to the end of this century. So you'll be able to enjoy the sea level rise and marked increase in tsunami/hurricane quantity and strength quite comfortably.
 

jerwin

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2015
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For me I only care about one thing: how high temperature the summer would be? 40C? 60C? If so then I just bs all "climate change is fake" claim. Oh btw, now it is 37C in Sydney.
A mere five degrees above freezing is normal for Winter weather.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
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Toronto, Ontario
I don't think people really deny climate change. Most people including republicans recognize the climate is changing. The problem is which is more dangerous than denying it altogether , is that conservatives think climate change is a natural process and humans haven't been the cause.
Climate change is a natural process, it happened before humans were a twinkle in some aliens eye.
 

nia820

macrumors 68020
Jun 27, 2011
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Climate change is a natural process, it happened before humans were a twinkle in some aliens eye.
So basically you are saying pollution, burning of fossil fuels and deforestation has had 0 effect on our environment?
 

dogslobber

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2014
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Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
So basically you are saying pollution, burning of fossil fuels and deforestation has had 0 effect on our environment?
I doubt they're saying that. There is a human element to global warming but if you think it's the catalyst for it all then that's a harder thing to prove. In fact, if you give me a funding grant then I'm sure I can stir up some climate data to support a need for more funding into the topic :)
 

nia820

macrumors 68020
Jun 27, 2011
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I doubt they're saying that. There is a human element to global warming but if you think it's the catalyst for it all then that's a harder thing to prove. In fact, if you give me a funding grant then I'm sure I can stir up some climate data to support a need for more funding into the topic :)
For the sake of this argument, lets say climate change is 70% natural and 30% caused by humans. Shouldn't we do everything in our power to cut down on our 30% of destruction of this earth ?
 
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dogslobber

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2014
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For the sake of this argument, lets say climate change is 70% natural and 30% caused by humans. Shouldn't we do everything in our power to cut down on our 30% of destruction of this earth ?
There are two problems with the global warming is human's fault argument. Firstly, those doing "research" into it have a vested interest to "prove" it's man-made. Secondly, how do you quantify the problem? If your argument is 70% is going to lead to dramatic change in the climate then can you do anything relevant to stop it?
 
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citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
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I don't think people really deny climate change. Most people including republicans recognize the climate is changing. The problem is which is more dangerous than denying it altogether , is that conservatives think climate change is a natural process and humans haven't been the cause.
But that is in essence the most important part of climate change ... that human beings cause it, and through their actions can reduce their effect on the climate. Just admitting that it's getting hotter isn't much help.
[doublepost=1479947740][/doublepost]
There are two problems with the global warming is human's fault argument. Firstly, those doing "research" into it have a vested interest to "prove" it's man-made. Secondly, how do you quantify the problem? If your argument is 70% is going to lead to dramatic change in the climate then can you do anything relevant to stop it?
What is that vested interest?

BTW, love the quotes around the word, "research." Do you not believe they are doing real research?
 

dogslobber

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2014
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What is that vested interest?

BTW, love the quotes around the word, "research." Do you not believe they are doing real research?
The vested interest is for climate scientists to get constant and ever increasing funding. In terms of "research", let me frame it thus: if Microsoft released a study saying that Microsoft Windows was best then how would you react?
 
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APlotdevice

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2011
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These days the denial is couched in terms like ... but the climate has always been changing.
Which is technically true, but it's shows a complete ignorance to the concept of "geological time". When a geologist says something occurred "rapidly", they don't mean months or even years. They mean thousands if not millions of years. It's "rapid" when compared to the entire scale of Earth's 4.6 billion year history.
 

cfedu

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Mar 8, 2009
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Toronto
For the sake of this argument, lets say climate change is 70% natural and 30% caused by humans. Shouldn't we do everything in our power to cut down on our 30% of destruction of this earth ?
No, not until we know what the solution is. If we cut carbon just so other countries can produce more, that is not a solution. Trump's actually has the best plan to reduce CO2, by making stuff in America again. If we buy stuff made in north America using green energy we will reduce carbon in production, transportation and reduce demand from emerging carbon emitters. Until we have a proper plan, I say FU to the environmentalists.

Without even knowing it, Trump can actually have the greatest chance of reducing emissions.
 
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APlotdevice

macrumors 68040
Sep 3, 2011
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The vested interest is for climate scientists to get constant and ever increasing funding. In terms of "research", let me frame it thus: if Microsoft released a study saying that Microsoft Windows was best then how would you react?
And yet it's not in the interests of the oil companies to promote denial of climate change?

Tell me, did people start calling for a ban on lead paints in the 1920s just to make money? Were the lobbying and marketing campaigns of the lead industry that helped keep lead paint on the market til the 1970s completely unmotivated?
[doublepost=1479948496][/doublepost]
I'm saying that the climate changed before humans were on earth.
Yes, over a period of thousands, tens of thousands, and even millions of years the climate has changed. The issue is not whether, but rather how quickly. The rate of change we are experiencing is not normal.
 
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