Does Russia's Putin have an undue influence on Trump?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by hulugu, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #1
    The conservative magazine The Weekly Standard asks a very good question:

    Talking Points Memo asks the same questions, noting for example that Trump has borrowed heavily from Russian oligarchs:

    And, TPM notes that along with the campaign's chair, Trump's foreign policy advisor on Russia and Europe is employed by Gazprom, the state-owned Russian energy company.

    This may be one of reasons Trump does not want to release his taxes—they'll show he's owned by the Russians.
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    He screwed so many Americans, he has to go overseas now to find his marks.
     
  3. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #3
    Better to do open business with Russia than to continue the corrupt relations we have with the Saudis.

    If Trump's been doing business with the Russians, maybe he'll not continue the NeoCon effort to push us into a war with Russia. It would be a blessing if a President Trump would publicly name the Wolfowitz Doctrine as absolute and utter BS.
     
  4. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #4
    Anything cited from the to-this-very-day-still pro-Iraq War neocon rag "The Weekly Standard" can and should be dismissed with no further consideration.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    I think its pretty clear that Vladimir Putin would see the election of Donald Trump as President as a huge opportunity to re-assert Soviet Russian control over Ukraine. He would also see a severe weakening, if not outright collapse, of the NATO alliance as an opportunity to bring the Baltic states, and possibly Poland under Russian influence and control

    As I've noted elsewhere, the evidence seems pretty strong that Russian groups, loosely aligned with the Kremlin, were responsible for the hacking of the DNC servers. The fact that the same groups were earlier identified with break ins at the White House; State Department; CIA; etc. suggest these aren't ordinary commercial criminal hackers. I think also the timing of the release of the hacked DNC data, right before the Democratic convention, simply adds further evidence of Putin's handiwork.

    But as far as outright control or direct influence over Trump? That seems a little more doubtful. Russian investors might have put large amounts of cash into Trump projects. But once invested, I suspect Trump would make it difficult for them to pull out in a way that would harm him too badly. I think the OP is correct in his guess that a release of Trump's taxes would reveal a whole host of questionable business connections with all sorts of unsavory characters. I find it telling indeed that the same jackals who've been bellowing for eighteen months over the transcripts to a (forgettable) speech Hillary Clinton gave to Goldman Sachs aren't up in arms over Trump's recalcitrance on the taxes issue.

    Personally I believe Putin sees Trump as a useful idiot (полезные дураки to use Lenin's original phrase) - a clumsy, blundering oaf who will recklessly trade away America's most valuable allies and alliances in exchange for a few more votes on election day.

    Be afraid. Be very afraid.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #6
    the Clintons sold out to China long ago. the Clintons want war with Russia. pick your poison :D
     
  7. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #7
    If Russian groups hacked into the DNC email servers so easily on behalf of the Kremlin then they certainly hacked into Hillary's home server which illegally contained TS-SCI information, America's crown jewels of intelligence.

    Something people will think about.
     
  8. applesith macrumors 68030

    applesith

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    #8
    Who should I vote for? You've mongered fear in me and I want to know who I should vote for to put such fear to bed.
     
  9. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Source for this astonishing claim?
     
  10. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #10
    I disagree. While I think that our relationship with Saudi Arabia is incredibly problematic, getting of that bed just to spoon with Putin seems like an incredibly bad idea.

    And, the fact that Trump may owe the Russians means he cannot be objective when it comes to American foreign policy regarding Europe and that's a problem.

    I had a problem with the Bush family's relationship with Saudi Arabia and I have a problem with Trump's relationship with the Russians.

    Which is why I also included a link to Talking Points Memo, which made the exact same argument.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 25, 2016 ---
    You're making an inference. And, the information on Hillary's server did contain some TS-SCI information, but that's not the "crown jewels" of intelligence. You don't know what you're talking about.
     
  11. zin macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Where were you when the Russians literally sent troops and took control of part of Ukraine?
     
  12. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #12
    Source?
     
  13. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #13
    Doesn't that prove his point? The Russians were able to take "part of Ukraine" already, but with a weakened NATO and a spoon-buddy in the White House, do you think that the Russians would stop at Crimea?
     
  14. Khalanad75 macrumors 6502

    Khalanad75

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    #14
    I've seen this meme already posted into my newsfeed. And that is quite the jump since Comey came out and said there was no evidence of this happening.

    I can jump on that logic train too. The Russians hacked the DNC, they had to have hacked my bank account as well.

    Dammit, there went my family photos. The Russians hacked the DNC, so they had to have hacked my photobucket account.

    Aren't leaps in logic fun?
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    Yea, while Obama feebly protested, shook his tiny fists, and yammered about "red lines." :rolleyes:
     
  16. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #16
    http://abcnews.go.com/International...onaire-tied-clinton-scandal/story?id=33990683
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_United_States_campaign_finance_controversy

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/9/hillary-clintons-hawkish-position-on-russia-troubl/
     
  17. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #17
  18. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #18
    Flawed logic: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
     
  19. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #19
    Source for what, that a drip of information in an email that included information from TS-SCI product is not the "crown jewels?"

    I assume at this point that you don't really understand the metaphor of "crown jewels."

    Let me put is this way, in the early-80's, the existence of the KH-11 satellite was a massive secret, bunkered under TS-SCI with extra clearances. But, what was really the "crown jewel" was the satellite's actual capability using electro-optical digital imaging. Putting the phrase KH-11 or Keyhole into an email made that communication TS-SCI, but the real crown jewel was not the name or codename of the satellite, but it's actual capabilities.

    Again, either you don't actually understand clearances or you don't understand the metaphor of crown jewels.

    Anyway this is just a desperate deflection that doesn't answer the important question about Trump's ongoing relationship with Russian oligarchs.
     
  20. zin macrumors 6502

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    #20
    The implication that the poster is making is that Donald Trump's election would allow Russia to assert control over Ukraine.

    This has already happened without Donald Trump's involvement.
     
  21. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #21
    Flawed logic is also inferring that because one thing happened, another thing must have happened. Without evidence, you cannot make the interference that the Russians hacked Clinton's email server—and here, we'd also assume that the Russians probably knew that the CIA had an annex in Benghazi.
     
  22. Technarchy macrumors 604

    Technarchy

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    #22
    I don't care about Russia.

    I care about the American election process having all the credibility of a banana republic.
     
  23. hulugu thread starter macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #23
    So, are you arguing that it's too late for Ukraine?
     
  24. Huntn, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016

    Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #24
    There are two ways to look at this:
    1) It takes a crook to know a crook, and/or
    2) Putin wants the weaker, train wreck of a leader to derail our train so he gains leverage and world influence.
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #25
    hence the reason Hillary hired Debbie.
     

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