Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell: Gay Rape in the Military.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by FieldingMellish, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #1
    A debacle indeed. The American Psychological Association (APA) has had to retract in in-house journal article that asserted the rate of rape among military men was as much as 15 times higher then the Pentagon’s own survey.

    The APA is not retracting the other articles with a general theme that military sexual trauma is underreported.

    Flawed findings or no, what the hell is going on in our military? When did this kind of thing commence and increase into what it’s become?


    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/9/pentagon-gay-rape-debacle-report-alleging-male-mal/
     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #2
    Probably 1776 or so...
     
  3. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

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    If a study's analysis is flawed, it is flawed. That study can always be reviewed and reinterpreted or changed and redone. That said, there were 12 other articles in that same issue of the APA journal suggesting higher than officially reported rates of male rape. It doesn't sound like there's much question here.

    I don't think it's surprising the number if the amount of sexual abuse is significantly higher than anticipated. This is not something solider are likely willing to report. If the problem goes under reported, it will go underestimated.

    Hopefully bringing public awareness to the issue in itself will be a start in reducing incidences.
     
  4. lowendlinux Contributor

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    Military sexual assault is under reported whether the victim is male or female. It's a problem the military is trying to fix it but it's something that will take time, just like military suicide, and mental health.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    The task of the military is inherently contradictory when it comes to training.

    On the one hand, it is necessary to thoroughly desensitize the enlistee. To quash the abhorrence most normal individuals have to the act of hurting and killing another human being. But at the same time to foster the vital sense of being part of a unit. That one is part of a team - a squad, a platoon, company, regiment, etc.

    It should not be surprising that sometimes these very different messages get mixed up in people's minds. Especially when living in very close proximity; in often extremely rough conditions; far removed from the tempering influences of family and friends, wives and girlfriends; and at an age when most young people are developing their own sense of what their sexuality is all about.

    Hazing and brutality within the ranks has been a problem in every military throughout history. It happened in Caesar's legions; in Napoleon's Grand Armee; in Hitler's wehrmacht and Britain's vaunted Royal Navy. The sexual nature of that brutality is something we are only now publicly acknowledging. But it is something that should surprise no one familiar with the process.
     
  6. steve knight, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    steve knight Suspended

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    Remember the trial of one of the officers that was responsible for dealing with rape for rape? Long ways to go
     
  7. lowendlinux Contributor

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    I agree we have a long way to go
     
  8. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

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    Why didn't you make a thread about straight rape in the military? Or are we just focusing on gay rape and attempting to contribute it to ending don't ask don't tell in not-so-subtle terms? Hmmm. No agenda here, carry on.

    I bet you most men committing those rapes are going home to their wives and identify as straight. Rape is about control, not sex. I'm willing to bet that very few if any openly gay military members commit these horrible acts.
     
  9. tgara macrumors 6502a

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    Relax dear, he's just posting the article for comment. Don't shoot the messenger.

    And regarding your comment about men committing these acts identifying as straight, is that common? The article did not discuss the orientation of the perps.
     
  10. sodapop1 Suspended

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    I don't know about you, but I've never gotten a boner from wanting to control someone else. So I'm having difficulty understanding how raping someone is physically possible if there is no sexual attraction involved.
     
  11. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

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    With his own special headline that's clearly attempting to make a false correlation between don't ask don't tell and military rape. Also from a right wing website that often refers to the "gay mafia".

    Yep.

     
  12. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

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    So you're not a rapist, congrats.
     
  13. kds1 Suspended

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    Power can be a strong aphrodisiac.
     
  14. tgara macrumors 6502a

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    I think he meant that the assaulted men are not talking about it and the military isn't asking about it.

    Although I can understand why you would think so, it's not clear by the definitions given with respect to these types of assaults that a majority of them are actual homosexual acts. "Sexual assault" is defined broadly to include not only the usual deviant guy-on-guy homosexual acts, but also mechanical assaults with, say, a baseball bat or rifle muzzle. I wonder if there is a breakdown of the numbers somewhere to show which is more prevalent. My guess is the latter only because of the macho attitude of the military but who knows....
     
  15. kds1 Suspended

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    #15
    "...the usual deviant guy-on-guy homosexual acts...."????? Deviant?????
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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  17. dec. Suspended

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    "Christian" lingo :D.
     
  18. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

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    This was almost a respectable post. So close.
     
  19. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    As has been pointed out previously in this thread: Rape in general is more about violence; control; and humiliating the victim than anything sexual in nature.

    I doubt that most of the men who sexually assault other prisoners in Federal and State prisons think of themselves as Gay or Homosexual. They use the violence of sexual assault to assert their dominance over their victims. I doubt the "squeal like a pig" rapist in "Deliverance" thought of himself as gay. His attack was means of denigrating and humiliating the outsiders.

    So too the male-on-male rapists in the military. Its not about people satisfying their sexual urges so much as a form of violence and control exerted over newcomers or outsiders.

    So I think the choice of the words "Gay Rape" in the OP is particularly misguided. It suggests there is some cabal of committed homosexual soldiers, freed from the constraints imposed by "Don't Ask Don't Tell" - to suddenly start preying on their fellow soldiers. Sexual assault of all kinds has been a problem throughout our military - from enlisted boot camps and the Service Academies, to units deployed in the combat zones of Iraq and Afghanistan. Roughly 25% of military women report being sexually assaulted at some time in their military careers. A statistic I personally find shocking and alarming.
     
  20. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

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    That 25% figure of all women in the military is disturbing. Wow.
     
  21. satcomer macrumors 603

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    #21
    The largest problem I saw while in the military was two fold!

    First being in the Signal Corp my AIT was 9 months long. We had one guy that would not shower AT ALL!!! He stunk so bad the Drill ask us to do a "soap party" on him send we did! He started showering after that episode!

    The second saw twice female soldiers purposely became pregnant to get out of being a solider!

    The idea of a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" guys just acted like every other guys. I also want to say they acted like everyone else during training exercises and regular on duty situations. To me they were just one of the guys.
     
  22. tgara macrumors 6502a

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  23. FieldingMellish thread starter Suspended

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    The linked article is entitled, “Pentagon ‘gay’ rape debacle: Report alleging male-on-male sexual trauma retracted.” That’s the term that has been repeated in the thread title.

    “Don’t ask, don’t tell” is a deft connection, inferring it is a topic that is not to be discussed, nor revealed. …Not too far off from other creative thread titles that regularly appear on the PRSI against anything non-liberal or non-left.

    From the article: “We know that there is underreporting among men and women, and hope that this special issue will help to bring awareness and treatment for those that serve and protect us,” said the periodical’s co-editor, Michi Fu, a clinical practitioner. “I personally wanted to pull together scholarship after hearing of reports of military sexual trauma being so much more prevalent than in the general population.”

    What BS. This is to be expected. You got men that want to be in the close-quarters presence of scores of brawny men and are subsequently overcome with attraction. This is what’s referred to as an anticipated consequence. Is it underreported? F yeah, (F being the operative word.)

    I remember the guy who was the towel monitor during football that I was part of in High School. He was the brother of the girlfriend of a girlfriend of mine. We learned years later he was gay and we came to realize that he had managed to plant himself exactly where he wanted to be: Handing towels to nude or jockstrap-wearing athletes walking around wet.
     
  24. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    Let me try and explain this to you: Read it slowly; several times if necessary, so that you understand it.

    The APA (the psychological association that conducted the study) used the term: "male-on-male sexual assault". Which is technically the accurate term to describe what is happening.

    The source you cited in the OP: The Washington Times used the term "gay rape." Which is inaccurate.

    Without going into too much detail: The Washington Times is a notorious source of right-wing propaganda and misinformation. It is owned and funded by the Unification Church: IOW Rev. Sun Yung Moon's "Moonies".

    I would instead refer you to the Military Times article on the same subject, which uses the correct terminology. I would also advert you to the fact that the APA has since retracted the article - pointing to flawed data that suggested the incidence of male-on-male sexual assault was much greater than previously estimated:

    "Gay rape" suggests that these assaults are being perpetrated by individuals who identify primarily as gay. There is simply no evidence to suggest this is the case.

    Just as the vast majority of male-on-male sexual assaults that occur in Americas prisons are committed by individuals who do not identify as gay or homosexual.

    In other words, the Washington Times published a statistically flawed study; and into the bargain they used inaccurate an inflammatory language to describe it. Wrong, and double wrong.
     
  25. WarHeadz, Nov 10, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015

    WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    So that makes you a sexual deviant by your own definition. Congrats! Welcome to the club!

    Own it, embrace it you little perv! :p
     

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