dual tibook rearing it's dual head again

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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we all know dual g4's are a possibility, so why not a dual tibook?

who would use it?

how much would you charge for it and would you buy one if you had the money in your hands right now?
 

Mr. Anderson

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Nov 1, 2001
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This was brought up several times in the past, and the one thing that always killed it was the heat and power consumption issues. I don't think we'll ever see a dual G4. If the G5s come out and have a lower power level (and that's only wishful speculation) Apple might make a dual in the next gen of CPU.

We'll be waiting for a while for that.
 

eyelikeart

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Jan 2, 2001
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heat & power consumption is definitely the determining factor...

but from the things we're seeing with the iBook being overclocked via software...maybe there's hope for the TiBook?
 

Mr. Anderson

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Originally posted by eyelikeart
heat & power consumption is definitely the determining factor...

but from the things we're seeing with the iBook being overclocked via software...maybe there's hope for the TiBook?
overclocking would only add more heat and power consumption, and making it a dual and messing with the hardware that way could only lead you down the path the destruction
 

eyelikeart

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Jan 2, 2001
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Originally posted by dukestreet


overclocking would only add more heat and power consumption, and making it a dual and messing with the hardware that way could only lead you down the path the destruction
I haven't made it back to the thread lately...but has anyone attested to their own iBook running fine with this hack?
 

Mr. Anderson

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You might want to pose that in the thread, chances are slim that someone might see that here. Last I cheked it was stilll active with new posts
 

jefhatfield

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Originally posted by eyelikeart
heat & power consumption is definitely the determining factor...

but from the things we're seeing with the iBook being overclocked via software...maybe there's hope for the TiBook?
ok, then...let's say that apollo, next gen g4, gets the .13 micron process and lowers the voltage and power consumption (not an entirely hari-brained idea)...then what would you pay, who would buy it?

i think it would be a 3000+ plus laptop for pros in the design field and would have little or no appeal to ceo's with deep pockets

but maybe the .13 micron low voltage thing is destined for the g5 processor
 

Mr. Anderson

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Originally posted by jefhatfield


ok, then...let's say that apollo, next gen g4, gets the .13 micron process and lowers the voltage and power consumption (not an entirely hari-brained idea)...then what would you pay, who would buy it?

i think it would be a 3000+ plus laptop for pros in the design field and would have little or no appeal to ceo's with deep pockets

but maybe the .13 micron low voltage thing is destined for the g5 processor
Well, that would change things, for sure. I use my TiPB for 3D animation and digital video, so I wouldn't have a problem justify getting one. But I think my next machine will be a desk top - I just need to wait for the G5 and hope its out in 03. that and to have 3 LCD displays would be awesome...
 

Pismo

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2002
528
48
NH
No way

I don't think we'll be seeing any DP TiBooks in the next few years. If they did make one, the battery life would be terrible. Another huge problem would be heat. Like the saying goes, "It does everything but make a pot of coffee." With the heat from the processors, you just might be able to heat up a pot of coffee, and cook some bacon and eggs.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
I'd buy one......... I'd pay upto £3.5k and if they released it tomorrow, then I'd buy it tomorrow..... simple as that......

For DV compositing Dual rules........ and if they could squeeze it into a TiBook then I'd be first inline.......

I think heat dissipation would be more of a deciding factor than power consumption, on the road you could always switch to a single processor setting to conserve power....

I'm with you eye, praying that some clever clog has come up with the way of turning my rev a 500 into say 600 to 650Mhz model purely by software.... I'd risk it...... I have insurance........ :D :p
 

eyelikeart

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Jan 2, 2001
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Metairie, LA
I think the pricing scheme will remain the same as it is presently...

unless we start seeing superdrives in them...they cannot possibly charge anymore than $3500 for a loaded setup...

on a personal note...I'd be willing to pay the premium for a dual-processor setup...but if it got into the $4000 range...I just cannot justify spending that much on a laptop...
 

eyelikeart

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Jan 2, 2001
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Metairie, LA
Originally posted by iGAV

I'm with you eye, praying that some clever clog has come up with the way of turning my rev a 500 into say 600 to 650Mhz model purely by software.... I'd risk it...... I have insurance........ :D :p
I have coverage for another 2 years on my Ti...but I don't think we'll ever see the Rev. As run any quicker than they already do without it being a very risky attempt...

they run hot enough already...the newer models run cooler I believe...but it's always nice to dream ;)
 

Mr. Anderson

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Yep, never did see if the computer actually ran though. Looked more like they were just playing around and dumped liquid nitrogen on the mobo.....

good call on the heat issue.;)
 

Rower_CPU

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Oct 5, 2001
11,219
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San Diego, CA
Let's break this down...we have two main issues, power consumption and heat.

I think the first is easier to solve than the second. Battery technology is improving quite quickly, and I think it's safe to say that we should see batteries with much longer lives and power handling capability. I mean, laptops have only been around a short while in the computing timeline...and everything these days seems to be headed towards portable computing (tablet pc, pda, etc).

The heat issue is the real corker here as far as I'm concerned. Moving to the smaller process (.13µ) will help with both issues...but not by a significant amount. If we ever see germanium chips, that could help a lot as well.

I think the fact of the matter is that current chip processes are reaching the end of their usefulness for personal computing. We are reaching the end of the silicon era...
 

jefhatfield

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Jul 9, 2000
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Originally posted by Rower_CPU


The heat issue is the real corker here as far as I'm concerned. Moving to the smaller process (.13µ) will help with both issues...but not by a significant amount. If we ever see germanium chips, that could help a lot as well.

first, why not? there are .13 micron pentium 4s running at 2.2 ghz in winbook laptops

and what is a germanium chip? it sounds really cool though and i like the future idea of quantum computing...no battery of heat issue there...and low cost, too (many years in the future though)

there is this japanese billionaire who wants to see it a reality in his lifetime but most experts say no way that can happen

in 1981, if someone said that there would be an ibm compatible at 2.2 ghz and the thing weighed less than 7 lbs., anyone would have said that was nonsense:p
 

Rower_CPU

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Oct 5, 2001
11,219
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San Diego, CA
Originally posted by jefhatfield
first, why not? there are .13 micron pentium 4s running at 2.2 ghz in winbook laptops

and what is a germanium chip? it sounds really cool though and i like the future idea of quantum computing...no battery of heat issue there...and low cost, too (many years in the future though)

there is this japanese billionaire who wants to see it a reality in his lifetime but most experts say no way that can happen

in 1981, if someone said that there would be an ibm compatible at 2.2 ghz and the thing weighed less than 7 lbs., anyone would have said that was nonsense:p
Good point on the 2.2GHz P4s, but I wouldn't want a laptop running that hot/loud.

Here's some info on germanium chips: http://www.semiconductorfabtech.com/industry.news/2002/25.0202-global-01.shtml

Quantum computing, or holographic computing, or light-based computing or whatever comes next will be VERY interesting!:)
 

Grokgod

macrumors 6502a
silly thoughts

There isnt going to be a DP Ti, not now not ever.

Why? because! its obvious.

For all the reasons that have been stated so many times.

What are they?

HEAT and POWER and NOISE.

Thats it, so forget about it!

If you want that much power then you get the Tower.

They increase the chip speed but never double the amount of chips.

Look somewhere else for a fantasy that is plausible in some way.

Like getting Pamela Anderson to come to your house to finish the dishes and make your bed before signing you a check for a million doallars.
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,219
0
San Diego, CA
Re: silly thoughts

Originally posted by Grokgod
There isnt going to be a DP Ti, not now not ever.

Why? because! its obvious.

For all the reasons that have been stated so many times.

What are they?

HEAT and POWER and NOISE.

Thats it, so forget about it!

If you want that much power then you get the Tower.

They increase the chip speed but never double the amount of chips.

Look somewhere else for a fantasy that is plausible in some way.

Like getting Pamela Anderson to come to your house to finish the dishes and make your bed before signing you a check for a million doallars.
It's fun to dream.

Besides, if no-one ever dreams things up, no-one would ever create anything innovative.

I think the issues are just heat and power, since noise is a by-product of heat (fans neccessary to cool chips).

Never say "never".:D
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Re: No way

Originally posted by Pismo
I don't think we'll be seeing any DP TiBooks in the next few years. If they did make one, the battery life would be terrible.
Not necessarily. Just switch off the second processor when not connected to AC power.
Another huge problem would be heat. Like the saying goes, "It does everything but make a pot of coffee." With the heat from the processors, you just might be able to heat up a pot of coffee, and cook some bacon and eggs.
The Apollo chips in the rev C TiBooks put off much less heat than the rev B TiBooks do. Two chips, at opposite ends of the rear of the keyboard, graphics chip in the middle, two fans. I think controlling heat would be very easy. Also, with a redesigned motherboard, I'm sure there would be enough space.

I think a DP TiBook would rock, and would be very possible technically. On the other hand, I wonder what kind of a market there would be for it.

Alex
 

ponyboy

macrumors regular
Jan 27, 2002
217
0
SLC UT/Italy
...

This forum reminds me of the playground where only the big boys played. Mind if I spit a bit.

I am running a Rev A TiBook and the thing is like a radiater on a summer drive from Vgas to Cali. If I were to overclock this my bed would start on fire and they would find me in the morning burnt to a crisp find MacRumors in my Cache and assume I posted a PDA rumor and got flamed by eye!
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Re: silly thoughts

Originally posted by Grokgod
There isnt going to be a DP Ti, not now not ever.

Why? because! its obvious.

For all the reasons that have been stated so many times.

What are they?

HEAT and POWER and NOISE.
Heat: With two fans, one cooling each processor, a nonissue.

Power: Switch one of the CPUs off when you need battery life, or whenever you want to use less electricity.

Noise: The current TiBook fans are (I hear) much quieter than they used to be. Two good variable-speed fans would still produce less noise than most other laptops.

Any more reasons a DP PowerBook couldn't happen? I don't think it's likely, either, but it's definitely technically possible.
 

Grokgod

macrumors 6502a
sure it may be possible but~

I agree with you, Alex_ant. Dreaming is a must!

Yet, I think there are other issues that will keep a DP Ti from being made.

The new Ti's are much better with cooling but its still an issue.
I dont think that making it twice as hot with extra fans is going to solve that issue.

But I do think that, as was stated, you could have one chip shut down.
Thats a good idea, then I suppose when you want the DP you can have it.
But thats what a tower is for.
I dont think that apple is looking to create something that takes away from the beauty of the PowerMac. DP towers have their own appeal.
I think that speed increases of a single CPU have been hard enough to create and design into the Ti and its taken 3 revisions to get it right finally!

But damn, the cost of these Ti's are rather steep, it would stagger the mind to see the sticker on one of these DP Ti's.
So cost would be another prohibitive factor.

HELL, I saw a GateW*y commercial with that freakin cow on tele and they had 2 ghz boxes for one grand.

OK, I know that has nothing to do with the Ti market.
Yet, i think that it matters when trying to increase your marketshare.
I think that APPLE is working on bringing down cost to a degree and getting out the best product.

Do I think it would be cool, HELL yea!
If it was quiet and cold! and cheap.
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Re: sure it may be possible but~

Originally posted by Grokgod
The new Ti's are much better with cooling but its still an issue.
I dont think that making it twice as hot with extra fans is going to solve that issue.

I don't think it would be twice as hot. I have a rev B TiBook, and although the major hot spot on the bottom is underneath the CPU, there is also a lot of heat near the power connector and near the graphics chip. A DP TiBook would generate perhaps 30% more heat (a rough guess) - not too much, I would presume, for dual fans, or perhaps a liquid cooling system like some PC laptops have, to tackle.

But I do think that, as was stated, you could have one chip shut down.
Thats a good idea, then I suppose when you want the DP you can have it.
But thats what a tower is for.

People have been saying "that's what a desktop is for" for years. When the first laptops came out, people said, "Why would you want a portable computer? That's what desktops are for!" Then it was, "Why would you want color graphics in a laptop? That's what desktops are for!" Then, "Why would you want a CD-ROM drive in a laptop? That's what desktops are for!" Then, "Why would you want hardware-accelerated 3D graphics, in a laptop?!? That's what towers are for!" Etc... In the past few years, laptops have come closer and closer to desktops. The percentage of laptops vs. desktops sold, not just by Apple but by everyone, has been on the rise. Laptops are increasingly seen as portable desktop computers capable of doing almost everything a desktop can.
I dont think that apple is looking to create something that takes away from the beauty of the PowerMac. DP towers have their own appeal.

Definitely, if Apple introduced a DP TiBook, they would have to find a way to keep it from hurting Power Mac sales. I would wager that the way they would do this is by making it quite expensive.
I think that speed increases of a single CPU have been hard enough to create and design into the Ti and its taken 3 revisions to get it right finally!

I don't see how it's been difficult to upgrade the TiBook... I think the heat and speed issues are mostly Motorola's fault.

But damn, the cost of these Ti's are rather steep, it would stagger the mind to see the sticker on one of these DP Ti's.
So cost would be another prohibitive factor.

Yeah, I think cost would be the biggest factor actually. But let's take this scenario: Apple debuts a dual 800MHz TiBook that starts at $4500. Sure it's expensive, but it's also the only DP notebook available from ANYONE, and it's also the FASTEST notebook on the planet! Talk about a desirable niche! They could make a $2k profit off these suckers and they would still sell like hotcakes amongst creative professionals with the money to spend. Apple would make lots of money off these new 'Books, and would gain back valuable cred from everyone under the impression that Macs are slow.

Alex
 
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