Dumbledore is gay

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #1
    Indeed he is. Rowlings fan base in the south just got a little bit larger (I do wonder if they are feeling "vindicated" in their opposition). I imagine that the discussion will get heated, so we might as well just start here and keep the newbies out.

    It's fine and dandy, and I suppose fictional characters can feel whatever they want to feel as far as they can feel, but I did find this unnecessary. I really didn't and don't care if Dumbledore was hetero-, homo-, bi-, a-, or sub-sexual (I'm sure I'm missing some categories). But, introducing his sexuality after the story, as something that was not discussed in the books just seems like she's looking for (does she really need it?) publicity. Part of what I loved so much about Dumbledore was his asceticism. He was so devoted to magic and teaching the kids, that he didn't have time to think about being attracted to McGonagall or Snape.

    I understand that she needed to correct the script, but adding a love interest to Dumbledore was gratuitous on it's own - aren't the books long enough without more material being added?

    Oh, and one more thing - falling in love with your rival? That's just too cliche. I mean seriously. Because teacher/student relationships would be going too far, Voldemort or Harry couldn't happen. So she went with the most cliche of cliche. So much for creative storytelling.

    Edit: Because I know that some are looking for me to rip into "the liberal agenda", I want to address up front, in summary, that my beef with this is the self-serving-after-the-fact-and-still-couldn't-be-original-and-fell-on-the-sword-of-cliche nature of her announcement, not who Dumbledore wanted to get in the sack with.
     
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #2
    The issue came up when she spotted a past female love of Dumbledore's in the movie script. She corrected it and has chosen to make it public. Given the grilling she has received from the xian fundamentalists, if this was intended as a dig at them, it's not surprising nor shocking. As an author, I'm sure each character has a much more defined personality in her mind than what appeared in the books.

    Perhaps it's because Dumbledore was jilted that he became an ascetic and was able to devote so much time to his students. The rockiness of life sometimes has a way of defining us.



    Sexuality is innate. Surely you don't have an issue with heterosex relationships, why should a gay relationship bother you so much?

    In the end, she's an author, the books are her own creation from her own imagination and their popularity in no way whatsoever compels her to "dumb them down" so that a small segment of the population is appeased.

    If you don't like them, then don't read them and if you have a difficult time telling your child that "gay" means two members of the same sex liking one another like mommy and daddy like one another, then, hey, maybe you need to rethink your role as a parent in today's world.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #3
    Umm- I can't believe this is even news. How boring. Does it really matter? Now if Daniel Radcliffe came out, you'd have my undivided attention. ;)
     
  4. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #4
    Yes, be sure to keep the newbies out. They might comment that this is about as dumb a topic as could be imagined.

    Who friggin cares? It is a fictional character to begin with. And in case you did not know, we have moved beyond the point where being gay is a scandal.
     
  5. psychofreak Retired

    psychofreak

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Location:
    London
    #5
    EVERYTHING about Harry Potter is news...thankfully this can be considered 'just another bit of news'. I wonder what the reaction would have been if he were gay in the first book...
     
  6. killerrobot macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    #6
    I totally agree. I don't care how it came about after the story whether she was correcting the film script or not, if it were so important to begin with why the f"·$ didn't she include it in her books?

    It would've have been perfect to do so seeing as hers books support equality (muggles are as good as wizards, mudbloods aren´t bad people, gays are bad people?)

    I'm still waiting for another Harry Potter to come out as I think she's gotten so greedy and attention starved that she won't be able to deny her own ego any chance she gets-in my opinion.
     
  7. Queso macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    #7
    Hell, you'll be telling me Gandalf is gay next.

    [​IMG]

    :p
     
  8. killerrobot macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    #8
    He sure did get along well with the hobbits.:eek:
     
  9. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Location:
    looking through rose-tinted spectacles...
    #9
    So who will be the first person to seriously question why he was allowed to be Headmaster at a boarding school? :rolleyes:

    It's not me incidentally since I couldn't give a flying fig. Dumbledore being gay completely flew under my gaydar - I was convinced he'd had a past flirtation with that Madame from Beauxbatons in his youth.
     
  10. SactoGuy18 macrumors 68030

    SactoGuy18

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA USA
    #10
    I think because his relationship with Gellert Grindelwald resulted the death of his younger sister Ariana, estrangement from his younger brother Aberforth, and turning his former friend into a hated enemy--all within a few years of Ariana's untimely death--it shook Albus' personal beliefs to the core. That forced him to rethink his purpose in life, and among the changes was very likely a vow of abstinance (note that when he became Transfiguration professor at Hogwarts by circa 1938 nobody mentioned his sexual preferences).

    It explains why Dumbledore never became Minister of Magic--he feared that his sordid past would become public and also because he feared the type of power he could wield as Minister of Magic.
     
  11. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Location:
    totally cool
    #11

    So Dumbledore being gay does have something to do with the story?
     
  12. nbs2 thread starter macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #12
    That last paragraph is why I think this is news. Because, regardless of what you think of the series, JK wields incredible literary power among a lot of society - especially children. So, any shift that she might make from story-teller to cliched point-maker is significant.

    If she had pushed out an "I'm gay and I'm ok" Dumbledore, I think it would have done more for the movement than most anybody else - especially as kids grow up. Putting this out there now, it just seems to be a lazy publicity stunt.

    I'm not sure if the comment refers to the generic you or me personally, and I'm not sure what the last half of your comment is asserting, so I'll hold off there. I find the stories quite enjoyable and after reading #7, I made sure to reread all of them to catch anything I might have missed.

    My complaint would have been just as strong if Rowling decided that Dumbledore was rebuffed by whatever woman you want to pick. It just seems like lazy publicity, without having to make the effort (or business risk) to put it in the book. If the books had come out 50 years ago and after the fact Rowling had said "Harry was once interested having a mixed relationship with an Asian girl" without the Chang-arc, it would have been just as lazy. My point, SMM is that if we really had moved past scandal, why present something so life-shaping as she presents it as a weak addition rather than as part of the story? This isn't 15+ million viewers of Will & Grace in the US, it's well over 300 million copies from just the first six books, around the world. It may not be scandal in the US, but what kind of stand would it have been China, India, etc.?
     
  13. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    #13
    I think you're pushing that a bit too far. As far as I can tell, nbs2 is just wondering why she chose to reveal this now. Why not in Book 7? You answered him by mentioning the movie script. I think you were a bit too zealous in your response here; you don't need to attack others for asking a question;)

    Funny, I thought it was these two:
    [​IMG]


    :p
     
  14. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    Terminus
    #14
    I think the point is that she threw this in to make a political and social point, and for no other reason. There were no hints throughout the whole season, and saying this is just trying to grab for extra attention. If it was explained within his character-arc, whatever, I have no problem with gay people. But to just throw it in at the end makes no literary sense and doesn't really make a point, since there was NO backstory for this in the books.
     
  15. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Location:
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    #15
    Hobbits are gay.

    Dumbledore is gay, and his infatuation with Grindelwald was at the root of one of the deepest compromises to his character, left intentionally nebulous by J.K.Rowling. You can completely go back and find this hint if you reread Dumbledore's history. Like any of the other faculty (other than Hagrid, Snape and Lupin), their sexuality was NEVER brought up or referenced in any way... but like McGonagall, there were clear indications of their interests and persuasion. I have to admit, I got the impression Dumbledore might have been of that persuasion. It's a deeply personal thing for many, even in the world of magic, and his interests sure made a mess of things.

    I was surprised this wasn't more tales of homoerotic Potter fiction, but big deal. It's a little queer that Rowling reveals this after the fact. Heh, heh... I made a little joke there.

    ~ CB
     
  16. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #16
    Well with comments like that...

    It wasn't important.

    It must have been there for awhile if she mentioned it while one of the movies was being made, so it's not like she's just pulling it out of nowhere. Apparently the relationship was important for the character, but not the story overall, so it really wasn't a big deal. She seemed to be going for subtext. But someone asked her about it, probably for the billionth time, so she finally blurted it out. As she said, if it's a big deal for you, you probably already don't like the subject matter.

    I don't really follow the books much, so I don't know, nor really care.
     
  17. nbs2 thread starter macrumors 68030

    nbs2

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Location:
    A geographical oddity
    #17
    Once accused, you can't expect me not to be a mite skittish...:)
     
  18. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    #18
    I'm guessing if she had mentioned or put it into print 10 years ago, she wouldn't have sold nearly as many books. By and large, artists can't afford to be idealistic until they're sufficiently rich and/or famous that it doesn't matter who they might alienate.

    In the end, it doesn't matter one bit. Yes we love Dumbledore, he's a great character and all that, but the books aren't about him, and where he likes to put his naughty bits doesn't affect the story in the slightest.
     
  19. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Location:
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    #19
    LOL. Well said... I think. :D By the end of it, two of the main characters absolutely crazy about each other barely get so much as a kiss between them. Clearly the story was never about sexual exploration and anything much deeper than snogging.

    By the way, in case anyone hasn't read this revelation IN CONTEXT:
    And for those with wild imaginations, Rowling also disclosed an entirely muted and well considered response to this question:
    It takes all kinds I guess... didn't they say patronus' often take the form of one's true love? Yikes.

    ~ CB
     
  20. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #20
    I stick to nonfiction and stuffy old novels anyway.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #21
    You and BillO are WAY to obsessed with Dumbledore's sexuality.
     
  22. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #22
    It's good news, but better would have been to adress the issue head-on in the novel. Every kid in the known universe was going to read the last Potter book, and there was a good opportunity to bring up an important and relevant issue such as this for a wide audience.

    Dumbledore is gay? Good. And as many children who know it, the more tolerant we'll be as a society in the future.
     
  23. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #23
    Yep. Come out, come out wherever you are! :D
     
  24. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Location:
    Terminus
    #24
    That's exactly what not to do. Stick to the story, and not to preaching to children reading it.
     
  25. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Location:
    Colorado
    #25
    I agree.
     

Share This Page