'DVD Jon' reopens iTunes back door


angelneo

macrumors 68000
Jun 13, 2004
1,537
0
afk
He seems to have too much free time on his hand. Why even bother? Maybe, someone can suggest to him that he can re-direct his talent to do some other more constructive stuff, rather than trying to seek attention?
 

angelneo

macrumors 68000
Jun 13, 2004
1,537
0
afk
I think Apple should take DVD Jone's software code. remodel it for iTunes look alike and released it as a Linux version of iTunes.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
stoid said:
I love Apple, but this whole ordeal looks really bad. Especially for people looking to switch to Apple because they are more secure.
This isn't even remotely relevant to the security or privacy of Macs. This is not about breaking into Macs OR into Mac software OR into encryption that you use for anything on your own Mac.

This is about bypassing the addition of DRM to your purchases. If anything, you could say it's about the security of the music files on Apple's end, NOT the user's end... but even that's not really accurate.

This is simply because Apple uses Akamai to efficiently send out music BEFORE it's purchased, and that means it must be sent out without DRM. Microsoft WMA stores do the same thing :) But I guess hackers aren't as interested in making it easier for Linux users to send money to Microsoft ;)

And this "hack" doesn't even allow you to steal music... you still have to pay for it!

Apple will have to strengthen their system as a PR issue with the record labels, but beyond that it's pretty trivial in actual practice.
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
1,657
0
Maryland
stoid said:
One word for Apple:

PWNED

This is Microsoft-ly silly. I love Apple, but this whole ordeal looks really bad. Especially for people looking to switch to Apple because they are more secure.
Agreed. The more Apple tries to fight it, the stronger the opposition. What they don't get is that DRM will NEVER work. Period. 1984, Apple. Didn't you guys learn that from your OWN commercial?
 

kettle

macrumors 65816
I look at it as a win win situation, the whole popularity of napster is based on the idea of doing something vaguely criminal, so if people can buy iTunes music and feel they're getting "away" with something, all the better it is for Apple and the music biz.

Also if people get attracted to linux and then at least it's a brick out of the M$ wall.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
Mav451 said:
What they don't get is that DRM will NEVER work. Period. 1984, Apple. Didn't you guys learn that from your OWN commercial?
Agreed, DRM is bad. But some interesting facts:

A) Apple isn't the one that wanted DRM. The recording industry demanded it, and without them, mainstream music downloading can't happen... yet. Thank Apple for having the clout to restrain the RIAA even a little bit or the DRM would be even worse.

B) DRM, sadly enough, DOES work, it's proven successful, and it has worked out great for Apple. That ship has sailed. These hacks won't end that success, since (unlike with Napster) you STILL have to pay for your music even if some version of this hack is never defeated.

C) It has always been possible to remove DRM from music, and the recording industry has always known that. Burn a CD.

I don't like DRM, but I do like being able to buy just one song, and I do like that Apple is changing the recording industry. I wish iTunes et al were the sudden death of the RIAA, but business doesn't work that way--so their loss of power is going to be a gradual one.

I don't understand what you think Apple is failing to "get" about this hack situation.
 

Mav451

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2003
1,657
0
Maryland
Ok, I guess you have a point. Most of us here on MR are knowledgeable enough to remove the DRM ourselves, and for the general Joe Schmoe/Jill Schmoe, it keeps things legit.

I guess that's the advantage of being, *ahem* in the know =D.
 

Savage Henry

macrumors 65816
Man, none of this is anything new. I was copying CDs before I even heard of DRM, using legit programs already available.

All this is just an exercise in attention seeking. If 'DVD Jon' thinks he radically changing the world with his efforts he's a rather self-delusive fool .... sure, more brains and talent than me, but what do I care!
 

SPUY767

macrumors 68020
Jun 22, 2003
2,018
112
GA
crees! said:
Or Apple could create a Linux version of iTunes and avoid these cat and mouse games.
Anyone who thinks that this is even remotely about letting linux users use iTMS is deluded. This is about DVD Jon and the fact that his mother didn't hug him enough as a child. In fact, I daresay, the only person who stands to get hurt by this is the end user. This fool keeps doing this crap and I may have to hire out a hit on him cause he also stands a chance to make my apple stock go down if he pisses the RIAA off enough.
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,378
110
Location Location Location
Well I don't use Linux, so its not to my benefit, but I really don't care if the DRM is removed or not. If I got iTMS songs with the DRM stripped, then great, it eliminates limitations for me, the end user. I would still have to pay for the songs, but now there are no limitations as to what I can do with it.

I don't see DRM as a good thing for me. I see it as a bad thing for the record industry. DRM is their issue, not mine. Apple still gets cash because I still buy songs. However, it's the perception in the music industry that music bought at iTMS COULD be stolen that will hurt Apple.
 
Anyone who thinks that this is even remotely about letting linux users use iTMS is deluded. This is about DVD Jon and the fact that his mother didn't hug him enough as a child.
I have no idea wherer that conclusion came from but the objections to DRM seem to be getting a little lost in sea of frothing rage.

One of the key points about DRM is that it shifts the boundaries that determine the acceptable usage of a legitimately purchased product.

Some might think that Apple's terms are OK - I am not going to deny that they allow some fairly liberal uses - but others do not think that DRM is OK at all and are prepared to take action to protect against this.

Importantly, and regardless of their terms, it is not for Apple or the RIAA or any other unaccountable body to determine fair use. And that is what DRM does.

There are no hard-and-fast rules, only general rules and varying court decisions. That's because the judges and lawmakers who created the fair use exception did not want to limit the definition of fair use. They wanted it--like free speech--to have an expansive meaning that could be open to interpretation.
My emphasis, quoted from Stanford University

Accepting DRM is accepting the definition and enforcement of laws by parties other than the elected governing and legislative bodies of your country. Anyone using iTunes, or any similar service, should be free to use it within their legal rights which do not, and should not ever, cede to company policy.

This fool keeps doing this crap and I may have to hire out a hit on him cause he also stands a chance to make my apple stock go down if he pisses the RIAA off enough.
I hope this a joke :eek:

Screw accountability, screw the law and for good measure screw anyone else who disagrees or, god forbid, actually wants to do something about it ... just so long as you don't suffer finacially, the world is a wonderful place, eh?
 

MarcelV

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2004
318
0
Mav451 said:
Agreed. The more Apple tries to fight it, the stronger the opposition. What they don't get is that DRM will NEVER work. Period. 1984, Apple. Didn't you guys learn that from your OWN commercial?
Get some history lessons. It's not Apple that requires DRm, it's the record labels. In fact, the original plans for iTunes never included DRM. Apple never wanted the DRM restrictions. When the negotiations started, the record labels required Apple to put restrictions around the distributions. So, the 'they' in your statement is not Apple, it's the record companies.
 

srobert

macrumors 68020
Jan 7, 2002
2,062
0
I wonder if this kid is damaging the ecosystem he is trying so desperately to get into.

P.S.: I do not think this guy is some sort of Robin Hood.
 

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,551
1,186
"laws by parties other than the elected bodies" is overstating it

I don't personally object to PyMusique--it hardly hurts anyone, not even the RIAA! And I can see why Linux users would want to (sort of) use the best online music store out there. But I think you've overstated some things, which doesn't necessarily help the anti-DRM cause. (And I'm not sure "DVD Jon" is helping either: it's not like he's having any effect on the DRM download business model.)


AlmostThere said:
Importantly, and regardless of their terms, it is not for Apple or the RIAA or any other unaccountable body to determine fair use. And that is what DRM does.
No, that's NOT what it does. DRM determines use, not in such general terms, but SPECIFICALLY for what you CHOOSE to buy, IF you find the terms acceptable for your use. These are creative products sold with agreements about what can be done with them. Apple and the RIAA ARE accountable for the agreement presented to you when you bought. Don't like the terms? Don't buy. Get your music somewhere without DRM.

You say this "shifts the boundaries?" Its boundaries are only for online purchases, which didn't even exist before. No boundaries have shifted for buying CDs, listening to the radio, etc. etc.


Accepting DRM is accepting the definition and enforcement of laws by parties other than the elected governing and legislative bodies of your country.
Of course it's not. Some services, from software to a bank account, have terms you must agree to. That is NOT "laws." By your argument, you might say that any agreement or contract in the world is bypassing the government. In actual fact, the laws of your government are what MAKE such agreements possible.

You may say you have a right to own your car, and therefore you have a right to keep your rented car without paying the lease. Otherwise you're letting the car dealer "define and enforce" laws on you :rolleyes:

I oppose DRM, but it IS a necessary evil thanks to pirates. They are the criminals whose crimes we are all paying for now. The RIAA's greed doesn't help, I know that.

If you object to the terms more strongly than I do, then boycott them and rage against them--I salute you--but don't overstate the case and make it something broader than it is. It's not changing laws, and it's not changing the rights we always had with CDs, and still do.

Furthermore, it's interesting to note that mainstream legal music downloading--which would never have happened without DRM--may well be the gradual beginning of the end of the RIAA's often-abused power.
 

Dippo

macrumors 65816
Sep 27, 2003
1,044
1
Charlotte, NC
Digital Rights Missing...

Wow, I am not surprised that iTunes was hacked again.
Way to go DVDJon! :D

Apple will surely plug the hole again, and it will surely be hacked again...
Will it ever end?

Maybe one day we will be able to buy music legally without DRM but until then I will have to continue buying from the Russians...
 

PlaceofDis

macrumors Core
Jan 6, 2004
19,232
4
releasing iTunes for Linux wont change this pogram at all

but however, this guy is technically breaking the law, i wonder what apple will do about that... it will be interesting to see how this plays out