Emails suggest Clinton is still privately against same-sex marriage

zin

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We all know that Clinton has public/private positions that she blamed on Abraham Lincoln.

In an email discussing her positions on same-sex marriage and DOMA, her aides appear to suggest that, privately, her position on marriage has not changed.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2631

[In response to discussion on her past support for DOMA]

I'm not saying double down or ever say it again. I'm just saying that she's not going to want to say she was wrong about that, given she and her husband believe it and have repeated it many times. Better to reiterate evolution, opposition to DOMA when court considered it, and forward looking stance.
Hope people wake up and realise this woman is nothing but a phony, using you for votes.
 
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WarHeadz

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Once again, out of context. What she and her husband believe and have repeated multiple times is that DOMA was necessary at the time to prevent a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage which would have easily passed at the time. It was the lesser of two evils for the moment, they were happy to see it overturned in favor of progress. If DOMA was never passed and there was a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage passed instead, it's very likely that amendment would still be in effect today and we wouldn't have achieved marriage equality for a long time to come.
 

Khalanad75

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OMG, someone can possible think one way privately, yet still support something outwardly because they know it's for the greater good of the country and it's citizens. It's amazing!!!

I'll admit, homo sexual intercourse between men grosses me out, yet I am still full on for LGBT rights including marriage. To each their own because what someone else does in their bedroom has no effect on my marriage whatsoever.
 

zin

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Once again, out of context. What she and her husband believe and have repeated multiple times is that DOMA was necessary at the time to prevent a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage which would have easily passed at the time. It was the lesser of two evils for the moment, they were happy to see it overturned in favor of progress. If DOMA was never passed and there was a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage passed instead, it's very likely that amendment would still be in effect today and we wouldn't have achieved marriage equality for a long time to come.
'Believe' is present tense. And what you're saying makes no sense. The aides say they doubt Hillary will explicitly disavow her previous position, leading to this email, stating why she probably won't disavow it.
 

Moyank24

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Aug 31, 2009
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We all know that Clinton has public/private positions that she blamed on Abraham Lincoln.

In an email discussing her positions on same-sex marriage and DOMA, her aides appear to suggest that, privately, her position on marriage has not changed.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2631



Hope people wake up and realise this woman is nothing but a phony, using you for votes.
To be fair, who the hell cares what she thinks privately about SSM?

The only thing we care about is if she then turned around and forced those views on us through legislation (like Republicans continue to do). And I think it's safe to say that she isn't going to do that.

People have been saying the same thing about Obama for years. But the fact that these people continue to do the opposite of their beliefs only hurts your argument. And makes the Republicans still trying to fight this look that much worse.
 

zin

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@zin, you're not looking too good today. My advice, take a step back from the keyboard, breathe deeply and look into context before you start another inane Wikileaks thread.
I got 4 hours of sleep today. It must be showing.

I do think I read that other email wrong on 'everyday Americans', but not this one.
 

MadeTheSwitch

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Hope people wake up and realise this woman is nothing but a phony, using you for votes.
The irony of that statement from a Trump supporter is really quite striking. The only time Trump loved the gays was after the Orlando incident where he thought he could pick up some votes. Didn't mention or pay much attention to our community before, hasn't mentioned or paid much attention to it since.

Like everything else about sniffles (wealth, taxes, charity, university) on this issue also, the man is a fraud.
[doublepost=1476203395][/doublepost]
I got 4 hours of sleep today. It must be showing.
Yeah...you know who else gets four hours of sleep and doesn't have a good showing for it??? Trump. :D
 
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AlliFlowers

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I'm thrilled that Hillary can hold her personal beliefs separate. That is a quality of a GREAT politician. Just as Tim Kaine pointed out in the VP debate, as a Catholic he is against abortion. But the will of the people comes first.

This is why so many of us, dare I say a majority, don't want Trump or Pence. Pence wants to turn the US into another religious nation, despite our melting pot of religious beliefs.
 

zin

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The irony of that statement from a Trump supporter is really quite striking. The only time Trump loved the gays was after the Orlando incident where he thought he could pick up some votes. Didn't mention or pay much attention to our community before, hasn't mentioned or paid much attention to it since.

Like everything else about sniffles (wealth, taxes, charity, university) on this issue also, the man is a fraud.
[doublepost=1476203395][/doublepost]
Yeah...you know who else gets four hours of sleep and doesn't have a good showing for it??? Trump. :D
What exactly do you wish he would have done regarding this issue? He went to gay ceremonies, he spoke (very) favourably over a decade ago, and has been very candid about his views on marriage. He was a businessman, not a politician. He wasn't exactly giving speeches on the Senate floor like Clinton.
 

Moyank24

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What exactly do you wish he would have done regarding this issue? He went to gay ceremonies, he spoke (very) favourably over a decade ago, and has been very candid about his views on marriage. He was a businessman, not a politician. He wasn't exactly giving speeches on the Senate floor like Clinton.
Well, for one, maybe not choose a running mate who hates the gays??
 

thermodynamic

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May 3, 2009
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We all know that Clinton has public/private positions that she blamed on Abraham Lincoln.

In an email discussing her positions on same-sex marriage and DOMA, her aides appear to suggest that, privately, her position on marriage has not changed.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/2631

Hope people wake up and realise this woman is nothing but a phony, using you for votes.
If I were a leader of a country that is "by, for, and of the people', I would have to take a lot into consideration. Including things I might not always like and try to find a reasonable compromise. Personal opinion vs what helps all in a country, I don't see how marriage is a bad thing. Or civil unions. If people want them. Like when people go to work and have to work on a project they don't want to but they do it anyway.

And considering Elton John was against "marriage" before he decided to support it (and being poly, the issue only becomes more complex but marriage is still a legal issue at its core or else government would not have been involved with hetero marriages)...

And the gays that don't want to marry (by calling it outdated, archaic, heteronormative, etc, etc) aren't really going to care either way what happens with it and by extension those who half-support it, begrudgingly support it, wholly support it, etc. That's their problem, not hers.

Sounds like she's trying to deal with a lot, on an issue that affects remarkably few. Since democracies and democratic republics invariably have to include people that don't fit the majority view. Genuine kudos to her. I said that before recently as well. Haven't had any epiphany and/or new reason to change my stance so far.
 

MadeTheSwitch

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What exactly do you wish he would have done regarding this issue? He went to gay ceremonies, he spoke (very) favourably over a decade ago, and has been very candid about his views on marriage. He was a businessman, not a politician. He wasn't exactly giving speeches on the Senate floor like Clinton.
Oh I don't know. Not pay attention to us only when it's politically expedient? Not try to use us as pawns? Not say he'd put people on the Supreme Court in favor of reversing marriage equality?

The VP has no power.
If something happens to the President they sure do. Not to mention having the ear of the President on an ongoing basis. Thanks but no thanks.
 

thermodynamic

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The VP has no power.
If the president stands down or leaves, the VP becomes P and thus gets a lot of power. Breaking ties is also a fair amount of power, albeit rarely used. That's why I don't discount the VP debates, even if the probability is low.
 

zin

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Oh I don't know. Not pay attention to us only when it's politically expedient? Not try to use us as pawns? Not say he'd put people on the Supreme Court in favor of reversing marriage equality?



If something happens to the President they sure do. Not to mention having the ear of the President on an ongoing basis. Thanks but no thanks.
But you're ignoring the fact that he has been far more favourable even before Clinton.

And to be honest, that is never going to happen. He won't nominate anybody that will reverse marriage equality. You talk pandering, well there it is. He's pandering to the religious loons.
 

Moyank24

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I'm not sure he hates gays. He just doesn't know what he's talking about. Besides, my question was about Trump, not Pence. The VP has no power.
Well, from where I'm sitting, it sure looks like hate. It's way beyond not knowing what he's talking about. But if you want to come off as a friend to the community, running with someone like Pence is not a good place to start. Neither is talking about appointing Supreme Court justices who would overturn marriage equality.

So, yeah, showing up at "gay ceremonies" ain't going to cut it.
[doublepost=1476205855][/doublepost]
But you're ignoring the fact that he has been far more favourable even before Clinton.

And to be honest, that is never going to happen. He won't nominate anybody that will reverse marriage equality. You talk pandering, well there it is. He's pandering to the religious loons.
So, you're defending Trump for basically doing the same thing as Hillary? In the thread you started because you wanted to bash her for doing this thing?
 
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zin

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Well, from where I'm sitting, it sure looks like hate. It's way beyond not knowing what he's talking about. But if you want to come off as a friend to the community, running with someone like Pence is not a good place to start. Neither is talking about appointing Supreme Court justices who would overturn marriage equality.

So, yeah, showing up at "gay ceremonies" ain't going to cut it.
[doublepost=1476205855][/doublepost]

So, you're defending Trump for basically doing the same thing as Hillary? In the thread you started because you wanted to bash her for doing this thing?
The difference is her private position is against it. His private position isn't.
 

MadeTheSwitch

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And to be honest, that is never going to happen. He won't nominate anybody that will reverse marriage equality. You talk pandering, well there it is. He's pandering to the religious loons.
Maybe. But I am not willing to take the chance. And more to the point and subject of the thread, you just admitted that Trump is phony and using people. Which is what you are complaining about Hillary doing.
 

zin

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Maybe. But I am not willing to take the chance. And more to the point and subject of the thread, you just admitted that Trump is phony and using people. Which is what you are complaining about Hillary doing.
Clinton: still privately believes in DOMA. Didn't switch publicly until 2013. Accepts millions from people who imprison and torture gays. Accepts millions from people who fund other people who throw gays off buildings. Wants a 550% increase in people from regions that hate gays. Panders to everybody.

Trump: Advocated for sexual orientation to be included in Civil Rights Act in 2000. Spoke very favourably about gays in 2000. Doesn't care that somebody is gay. Has held the same view on marriage since then (states decision). Panders to evangelicals with the sad hope of reversing the Supreme Court decision.

Not even close. Don't kid yourself.
 
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