Europe’s Socialists Suffering Even in Downturn

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by fivepoint, Sep 29, 2009.

  1. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #1
    Thoughts from Europeans? What's the cause? Is the same to follow for Liberals in Washington?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html

     
  2. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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  3. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    San Diego, CA
    #4
    If you read the article, you'd see that one of the reasons socialism is having a hard time is because center-right parties have adopted many socialist ideas. So until Republicans become keen on generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, and sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the liberals in Washington (who are more closely aligned with Europe's center-right than with socialists) will be around for quite some time.
     
  4. djellison macrumors 68020

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    #5
    The US spectrum of politics extends a mile wide, from the left to the right.

    Here in the UK - politics occupies a one inch wide window of that, about a third of a mile into the left.

    US politics is so polarised and partisan, any comparison to EU politics, any attempts to draw comparison between the 'left' or the 'right' on each side of the Atlantic is utterly pointless.

    You would not find a political party (a serious one with at least a chance of representation in the HoC ) in the UK that would

    Ban abortion
    Scrap the NHS
    Free up gun control
    Ban Gay marriage

    These are things that one side in the US would like to do.

    Not here.
     
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #6
    Well, the Labour party isn't really "left wing"...
     
  6. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #7
    Fivepoint projecting again....

    When Merkel was first elected, everyone was singing the praises of the "German Thatcher" She proved them all wrong. She resembles her socialist predecessor Schroeder way more than she'll ever resemble Thatcher.

    I think the one word that describes Merkel the best is pragmatic. Not only that she spends a lot of time building a consensus.

    Even Poland only flirted with the potato twins ™ :D Nobody wants extremists in office, whether they're on the left or the right.

    If you follow British politics, you'll of course have noticed that even Thatcher's Tories have turned into Labour Light.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #8
    You expected something different?

    Now, there's a word completely missing from American politics. That needs to be a new party in the US- the Pragmatic Party, that simply does what works, not what they wish would work according to some tired, dead ideology.
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    What about HIV/AIDs or drugs or providing opportunities to the poor? Then a lot of the time it isn't just the US that falls down its (almost) everyone.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    I think you know what I mean. I'm not talking about science, I'm talking about politics.

    What I mean is- what is the most beneficial to society.
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #11
    I'm talking about politics too. The reason we don't hand out clean needles to drug addicts in UK prisons or handing them out at all in many other countries is entirely politics, there's no scientific basis for not doing it.

    And society benefits in at least that for those addicts that do clean up, we don't have to fund anti-retrovirals for the rest of their lives.

    And then on drugs if we legalised it we'd benefit Mexico, and Peru and Columbia by taking all that illegal money and corruption out of their countries - even for the people who aren't addicts. And noone is exactly going to take Heroin "just because its legal" when we're hardly likely to increase its availability by providing on prescription.
     
  11. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #12
    well after all Merkel studied physics and simply leads to be a little more pragmatic most of the time

    though the interesting thing this time will be how yet again the right wing praises will be made because of the market liberals of the FDP joining the german government only to find out that their head Guido Westerwelle is gay

    and chances are that he isn't going to play "softball" as the pretty much confirmed new foreign minister:
    on the first FDP press conference he answered to a reporter from the UK after being asked a question in english: (i'm translating here): "we are in germany here the day after the german bundestag election, at a press conference regarding german politics so i expect the questions in german just like in the UK they would be expected in english and in France in french"

    the english yellow press gonna like this... i can already hear the third reich references being printed

    i suspect the UK can forget pretty much all of the usual "we want an exception" stuff on the EU level now
     
  12. jb1280 macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    If anything, the issue that plagues the Socialists in Europe is similar to the problems of the Republicans in the United States.

    This trend is not related to ideology, it's simply a function of the end of a political cycle.

    As has been stated, most of the core ideas of the socialists are now part of the political mainstream - nobody is going to unravel universal health care and foreign policy will still err on the side of non-military involvement.

    Similarly, the core ideas of the Republican party are now part of the mainstream in the United States. There will most likely not be a public option for health care, foreign policy will still be flanked by "hawks", and low taxes will always be politically necessary.

    Put in another way, the two are victims of their own success.

    Further, the Republican coalition has essentially been turned inside-out and lacks any credible leadership in a similar way that smaller parties that are left of the social democrats are peeling away votes.

    Finally, both are intellectually spent. They have no new ideas.

    Again, this is ideologically agnostic and more related to general cycles of political leadership within states.
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    ^^ The real reason the republicans are dying isn't that things like "no public healthcare" are going to be adopted, but that such things aren't rational, and for a rich country don't actually make any sense. Which is why the arguments against public healthcare are so weak...
     
  14. Pocket lint macrumors regular

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    Sep 2, 2009
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    In my trousers
    #15
    Yep, just like the left holds any power here in Denmark :p
    Seriously, the Social Democracy (the party) used to be the biggest, and very good and strong when in opposition, but these days, they're nothing more than a joke.

    I wouldn't call Italy "socialist" either. Not even close.

    Quite the substandard article.

    I agree with JB, mentioning that most of the ideas of the left have become mainstream (at least when it comes to rhetorics). We have for years said that the Social Democracy (the party) have "sejret ad helvede til" which translates into something like "Have been victorious all the way to hell", implying they have made themselves superfluous as a party, or as JB puts it: A victim of their own success.
     

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