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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Mar 23, 2016.
This is probably why the Dept. of State issued their travel warning for Europe.
Sounds like a perfect plan for the EU to ramp up orwelian police state conditions throughout Europe.
Maybe if we kiss their ass they won't hurt us? Pretty please? With sugar on top. Okay, how about a heaping helping of Halal on top?
How deluded is that view?
Ok. Let's just sit back and do nothing...see if the article is correct. How's that?
Certainly there won't be more people blowing themselves up in high density public places. After all, that's just stupid - and as it has been pointed out already, more people are killed in car accidents anyway, so what's the big deal?
If we would just speak with them and try to understand their issues and problems I'm sure we could find a peaceful solution.
I mean, that's all they really want, right?
All they want is a safe area so they can be left alone, all peaceful like.
I bet there's some in the US too.
Of course! Our President will see to that, as just an incidental. Kind of like how drug dealers and sex traffickers are an incidental over our porous border.
or people could move to truly free states like Somalia, get beaten up and maimed, and nothing would be done about it because people loves their freedom. for which anarchy is the most obvious example.
I'll all most called you a name...I'll leave it to our readers to imagine what it might have been.
What do you propose?
Well it seems to primarily be an issue in France and Belgium where community relations with muslims are worst.
Well I don't think just turning our backs and running is a viable solution.
Jobs! They need jobs!
Wait, I'm pretty sure if I was ever unemployed my next thought wouldn't be to start lopping people's heads off, burning them in cages or throwing them off of buildings.
Well with the reference to "former Soviet bloc" sounds like a segue towards ramping a new version of the OldCold War. The promise of military industrial jobs, don't leave home without 'em in an election year, no matter what side of the aisle your voters plunked you down on to bring home the bacon.
Yeh except for ISIS confirmed that they have shadow cells all over Europe.
I don't understand their motive. Is it just "kill all infadels!" or revenge for something?
The motive is to get the West to turn in on itself so that the tactics of surveillance and oppression that we've been exporting have been turned on our own people. Basically give us a taste of our own medicine, except there's no way we'll kill our own citizens as freely as we do civilians throughout the world.
This is to bring about a collapse of Western society under the weight of it's own authoritarianism, which from the public mood and political rooftop shouting, is seemingly going according to plan.
I'm shocked at how stupidly we are playing right into the end result that ISIS wants. It's obvious but all we seem to do is shrug and suggest bombing more people, thus strengthening ISIS.
Osama stated that he can send a guy out to the most remote region on a few thousand dollars to plant a flag, and the US will spend trillions just to take it down. The idea was "death by a thousand cuts" financially, and it's exactly what we are doing.
Yeah, but the people around you would still have work and still respect the police so even if you did start lopping people's heads off, burning them in cages or throwing them off of buildings then your neighbours would report you.
Heh, from the point of view of the training camps of ISIS, once you train a bunch of people on how to blow themselves up and take the neighborhood with them, last thing you'd want is having them sit around getting a resentment for not having anything exciting to do and also not getting paid enough to have fun. Set 'em up and ship 'em back, solves potential local control problems. When something goes wrong, it goes wrong elsewhere, not in the cozy nest of training camp.
As far as motive of radicalized European residents who travel to the Middle East or elsewhere for training as terrorists, why would it not be the combo of idleness or underemployment, isolation, youthful feelings of "no future" and then an exposure in radical mosques or on the internet to the idea of a cause, a grand re-establishment of Caliphate. Teens to mid-20s in such situations are apparently vulnerable to recruitment. Our brains don't really have mature judgment centers until we're in our late 20s...
For the literate few, read this Atlantic article about ISIS. What it is, why it is different from al-Qaeda, etc.
The liberal hive-mind is wrong. Saying "ISIS isn't real Islam" is oxymoronic. ISIS is literally the Koran put into practice in the real world, they are Koranic literalists who are doing, verbatim, what their holy book demands of them. Article is superb by the way, it explains the concept of Caliphate and jihad in better terms than any 300 word Fox News snapshot possibly could.
Warning: Requires 20 minutes of your time and a 10th grade education. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...urce=SFTwitter
That article should be required reading for everyone...
As much as we old like to believe otherwise, "subjugate, convert or execute," are the only options open to ISIS followers when it comes to non-believers, and most people will never understand this list includes upwards of 70% of all Muslims as well.
The group is firmly rooted in Islam, and growing every single day.
It's time to route them from Iraq - as painful as that will be - then search out and destroy them wherever they are hiding.
I heard several comments, that it's not about the infadels, but
1) simple atmosphere of fear
2) to plant fear, which will result in western people acting against their calm integrated muslim neighbours and
3) make them vote for extremist partys and destabalize democratic governments
4) stimulate the west to go to bomb/kill muslims that still live in the arabic area, so that they can say "look, do you see how the west hates us? I told you so". So ISIS gets more support and more fighters.
(5) Someone also said, that Europe taking in over 1million refugees is bad propaganda/publicity for them, because they can't paint the west bad. How can the west be bad or hate muslims, when they help so many?
They enjoy the Turkey deal, because it is in their interest, that the pictures of the west welcoming muslims stop and also people don't wonder why someone would leave their "phantastic" state.
---- side notes ----
On the attackers and the Trump fans here making fun of liberals saying "we must understand them". Liberals usually don't talk about people that were born in the EU, then when they are 15-25 years travel to syria, get a terror training and go back. They are talking about Arabs, that are fleeing ISIS. You have to make the case, or do you want us Europeans think all Americans are stupid and retarded, because we transfer our opinion about Trump to the whole US nation?
Non-European attackers so far have mostly been from Marocco, Tunesia and (less though) from Egypt! Tere are also Balkan people who are involved in getting them the weapons and providing help from the second row.
The refugees from Syria so far have been by a majority from the big cities, btw., they are somewhat easier to "deal" with anyway and more open to secular stuff.
Lately a journalist who works for a big public TV channel and came from Teheran, Iran as a child (in the 70ies) said, when he came to Hamburg he thought he was in some kind of Suburb of a larger city. So they are not the savages that some always want to paint them.
Also a typical story of people who come to ISIS and get these special attackers, is young people that are good at school and bad at sports and are bullied by the other children (those kind of kids that do mass shootings in the USA isn't that interesting). In arabic and european countries they go to ISIS or Scientology or Jehovas Witnesses. Because these make a "good" job as social workers (what used to be the role of the christian churches in the 60ies/70ies or the state). A Palestinian now living in Germany said on TV, that he got bullied as a schoolkid, because he was good at school. Back then, his parents didn't get his mood etc., but the local Imam did and step by step turned him into a almost-terrorist using his hate against the schoolkids as a foundation, he could build the "look how the world hates us muslims" on top of it.
The Palestinian then swore himself, he would study at the university to undermine the society and fight it from within. During his university time he then luckily changed his mind...
I posted this article when it was published in Feb. 2015. ISIS is certainly fundamentally Islamic and built around an apocalyptic understanding, but we have to understand the group in relief to other Muslims.
As the author notes:
Now, take the metaphor further. While Koresh certainly took Old Testament leanings to build his own death cult, this doesn't mean that other Christians believed in his ideas.
C'mon. Get serious. These were people originally employed at slaughter houses and they were just honing their chops for the next job opportunity that opens up.
Is that what the West is doing?
Are you implying this is a characteristic of all Muslims?
I agree with the last part. We will spend 1000x what they spend to fight them. The goal is world instability and conflagration in the name of their religion.
--- Post Merged, Mar 25, 2016 ---
As painful as it will be and for our lifetimes? Be sure to volunteer your kids and grandkids. Are your prepared to threaten the viability of the society you live in? I have an issue with costs. The GOP screams about Federal deficits, but is happy to throw way a fortune with abandon when it comes to a bad war, without a thought to paying for it.
Ok citizens, time to get real, let's show our resolve and dedication- triple our federal income taxes to show how much we really support endless war on the other side of the world, institute a draft, and send your kids. My kid is all ready over there.
--- Post Merged, Mar 25, 2016 ---
This is just a tactic, the reason they are doing this is to establish a worldwide caliphate and follow their holy book in bringing "heaven to earth" by converting everyone to living under Islamic law.