European Court ofHuman Rights 1 - UK Government 0

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Happybunny, May 23, 2012.

  1. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #1
  2. jeremy h, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 23, 2012

    jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Seeing as the UK is always so naughty ... Here's some actual naughty step ratings...

    ECHR violations:

    Turkey - 159 Russia - 121 Greece - 69 Poland - 71 Italy - 34 Germany - 31 France - 23

    That naughty bad boy, the UK - 8 (yes, 8) and even the extremely well behaved Netherlands have managed 4. ;)
     
  3. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #3
    They gave-up this civil right when they ceased to be civil.
     
  4. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #4
    I don't agree with prisoners being able to vote. We bar them from society for a reason, they weren't able to live within the law.
     
  5. Happybunny thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Yes but four is also far too many.

    The laugh for me is when one of these verdicts is passed, is just how indigent the British Press is lead as always by the Daily Mail.
     
  6. Fazzy macrumors 6502

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    #6
    The daily mail is our version of the onion.
    Only nobody remembered to tell its readers..
     
  7. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #7
    That is my thought. When you are a prisoner and convicted of a crime you also loss many of your rights and one of those rights is the right to vote.
     
  8. Gav2k macrumors G3

    Gav2k

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    #8
    I don't think they should be allowed to vote. Each one o them already costs the tax payer £45000 a year to keep in prison why should they get to vote on what society is doing outside those walls! It's a joke the eu can stick it in there pipe and smoke it!
     
  9. Happybunny, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 23, 2012

    Happybunny thread starter macrumors 68000

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    #9
    Gav2k you sound just like I imagine a Daily Mail reader. You are aware the the ECHR has nothing to do with the European Community?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Communit

    (I am not sure if this is a true story, but given the readership of the Sun it could be)
    In the UK it is "common knowledge" that during the
    child-abuse/paedophilia hysteria of the late 90's, early 00's, a gang of
    vigilantes (frequently said to be in Portsmouth, scene of a very nasty
    child sex-murder) attacked the home of a paediatrician in the mistaken
    belief that it belonged to a paedophile.

    Not everything with the word Europe is part of the EU.

    ----------
     
  10. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #10
    ECHR: Automatically banning all prisoners from having the vote without considering the circumstances is disproportionate. The UK should adjust their policy and the exact rules are left to the reasonable descretion of British Ministers.

    UK Tabloids: EUROPE SAYS MURDERERS AND PEDOS MUST GET VOTE!!!

    Once again the ECHR which does a good job policing Europe and making sure we have some of the best human rights in the world is slandered by idiotic journalists pandering to the proles. :confused:
     
  11. calb macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Exactly. It annoys me to no end when people attack Strasbourg over mistaken assumptions. The court was not saying the UK must give all prisoners the vote.

    For those actually interested in the argument:
    http://www.headoflegal.com/2012/05/22/ecthr-grand-chamber-judgment-scoppola-v-italy/

    Edit: Just to make my frustration clear: reading the Daily Mail's coverage of European institutions is never going to give an accurate picture.
     
  12. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #12
    The OP might not like the results, but this thread cries-out for a poll. :D
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #13
    Why the **** anyone cares about not giving burglars the vote is beyond me.
     
  14. hafr macrumors 68030

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    #14
    In all fairness, the ECHR belonging to le Conseil d'Europe, which has the same flag as the EU, and being located in Strasbourg, it's fairly easy to see why even europeans get confused...
     
  15. malman89 macrumors 68000

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    #15
    This is how it is in my home (though not current) state of Michigan. Never really thought of it as inappropriate. Oh well.
     
  16. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #16
    And it's my belief that when you're released you should be given those rights back.
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    FWIW in the UK you do.
     
  18. hafr macrumors 68030

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    #18
    All of them?
     
  19. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #19
    It's complicated. Most people released from prison are 'on licence' (aka parole), they have restricted rights. After the sentence is finished almost all rights are restored. There are some jobs that by law don't allow you to have certain criminal convictions (and a very small number that don't allow any at all). However, by and large all rights are restored, although there is of course the social stigma that may make things like employment, loans etc difficult. Eventually convictions are 'spent' which means they won't even appear on a standard Criminal Records check, so people will only know of them in very limited circumstances.
     
  20. hafr macrumors 68030

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    #20
    Sorry, I was way too occupied with other things to be posting on a forum. I was thinking about voting, and with "all of them", I meant to say if all convicted felons, no matter what crime they've committed, were allowed to vote straight after having served a sentence.

    In the two countries I know about, certain crimes doesn't affect your right to vote, other crimes mean you get the right cancelled during the time in prison and the more serious crimes (murder one and so on) mean you lose your right to vote for quite some time after the sentence is served.

    I've heard that in the states, any prison sentence mean a permanent cancellation of your right to vote, which some people (tin foil hats) say is the reason why young black men so "easily" get sentenced to shorter prison sentences. Do you know if there is any truth to this?
     
  21. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #21
    it varies by state. In the majority, once you've served your sentence, then you get your voting rights back.....but in some states it's permanent

    ABC News

     
  22. hafr macrumors 68030

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    #22
    Thanks!
     
  23. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #23
    Philosophically we should never let government push this through. They can implement unjust laws, imprison you and in so doing remove the threat of being voted out of government by the very people who want it, and deserve it most.

    Sounds far fetched.

    But we don't vote for legislation, we don't have a true 'democracy', there might not even be such a thing in current societies. Most citizens don't vote, and most of the voters don't know what Bills are going through Parlt. at any given time.

    Any time a government moves to entrench its position, just say no.

    Maybe we can remove the rights of some of the most hardened criminals, or some of the most disgusting criminals - some murderers, all rapists, paedos etc

    A full on blanket removal of prisoners rights to vote would be terrible thing to see on anything beyond a superficial level.
     

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