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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by cube, Dec 4, 2016.
Austria: NO to far right
Italy: NO to concentration of power
Italian PM resigned
Renzi is out finally.
Now let's see if Italy gets the fourth non elected government coalition or if citizens input is finally requested.
Good on the Austrians meh on the Italians
I made another thread about this, maybe the mods can merge these together. Anyways, the current vote is over and seems a move towards the Left? Seems odd, the world is giving mixed messages, UK, America gave a very strong push to the Right where as EU seems to want to go more towards the Left.
In Italy basically "Bernie Sanders"(internal leftist opposition in the Italian Democrat party) and "Rush Limbaugh" (far right, Northern League) voted the same ("NO"), so it's hard to paint it as a left or right outcome.
I believe Brittan will leave when it actually happens..
The things to watch for are what goes on in France and Germany next year. France has two bad choices and a surging AfD could make for an interesting coalition.
You are once again overestimating what happened in the US. But keep going. I'll be happy to quote you in a few years.
The more far right wing populists succeed the more people (finally!!) get up and vote against them.
Also, Italy is in a state of constitutional crisis since the very beginning in 1948.
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Indeed. France - I have no clue about, shame that they let it escalate until people see no other option than to vote for LePen.
In Germany though, AfD could help establish a very viable "Leftist" coalition of SPD, Green Party and The Left. That would finally mean Merkel to take her hat. SPD did some surprisingly good and well made moves as of late. Interesting for sure.
The AfD has already enough on their hands to keep their shop somewhat afloat and not split up over their huge success prematurely, if it weren't so sad I'd have to lol at them hard. Since Merkel will run again the CDU has to take a hard position against the far right wingers - which brings in the southern CSU with the cheap Trump impressario Seehofer who is lacking the balls to run himself but we'll see.
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Not so much in the UK. UKIP are struggling to find their place and are losing support, and the Lib Dems (a left-leaning party) are making gains. They are the only major party to support remaining in Europe so, to me at least, it seems there was a right wing hiccup that has served as a wake up call to the rest of the public.
What aspect of saying the EU went Left overestimates what happened in the US? How does saying they went in two different directions imply that events in one side has more or less power independent of the other? Can't follow the logic there.
What event could happen in 4 years that would change any aspect of this as they've gone it two entirely different directions?
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I could see that, the EU is MUCH more Left than the US. I think what'll happen is that the EU will have more slow growth and their banks will start to fail. Their banks are already on the edge as it is, and the invasion of unemployed people isn't likely to help much.
Italy did not go in any specific direction.
I'm no expert on Italy's position (Left/Center/Right) but I think that not moving from their current position, could be seen as moving (or staying) away from the direction the US is going. In other words, they didn't follow the US and the US just went hard Right.
US went populist, great salesman and supremely effective communicator.
You're so cute trying to figure it out and discovering something new everyday (conflicts of interests, etc.). Cute cute yankees.
Italians are veterans on this thanks to 20 years of Berlusconi on the political scene. When the salesman declines (luckily for you in 8 years top), the whole circus deflates. Hardly "the whole nation going hard right".
The hard right is much more than just one "salesman" leaving. The appointments alone could last for generations. The SC could be 7~2 hard right. The fact that the "salesman" has full control and needs ZERO votes form Dems in the Senate to get what he wants and the fact that he could be closer that anyone in the last 100 or more years to being able to rewrite the US Constitution would suggest more than just 8 years.
It took some 100 years for a party to get this close to being able to rewrite the US Constitution. It's not that common for a Pres to need ZERO votes from another party to pass an appointment.
The entire direction of the US could be changed forever. He could change the US Constitution to change the name to United Trump States of America. He could maybe do this without ANY Dem support.
You see, it's not just a "salesman", it's that he has amazing amount of control over the nation. More than anyone in some 100 years. These things don't happen very often.
Think about that. Trump could end up packing the SC with 30 year olds in an 7~2 hard right lean and that could last for then next 60 years. << this could happen.
The issue is the poster KarlJay isn't as versed in things as he thinks he is so he tries to frame world political events in the frame of American politics. When he views American politics he thinks in hyperbole and with urgency i.e. Trump is a seismic shift in American politics vs. the same party has not occupied the White House for more than 8 years since FDR everything is dramatic and new. He'd really make a cool talking head on TV the elation and pain would be fun to watch.
The US didn't go hard right, it just said F the establishment. There's a difference. Stay tuned.
Karl: yeah, no. Whatever you're taking, maybe ask about contraindications.
I though you promoted me to your prestigious ignore list, why did you demote me? Don't you know it's a badge of honor around here to get promoted to someone's ignore list? I guess it's just too hard to ignore the power of pure logic.
Ok, so let's dig into your logic, again, I assume you call that logic...
You're saying it can't be the case that both the going hard right and "F the est" could happen? The GOP won EVERYTHING and "F the est" happened. Being related or not, doesn't aside that it happened.
<PS: The guy from Breitbart has Trump's ear>
Did you have something of substance, not just "Whatever you're taking, ..." We TRY to have intelligent conversations around here.
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The war on poverty was done by one president at one time, the impact has gone on for over a 1/2 century.
It's not how long someone is doing something that determines the impact. The big picture would compare the two outcomes:
Hillary vs Trump. What direction would Hillary have taken, what would the SC look like. When will the other 3 SC justices over 79 years old retire or die? How close is Donald J Trump to being able to rewrite the US Constitution without ANY votes from ANY Dems?
Can he actually make Dems unconstitutional? Can he change the name of the US to United States of Trump? He's made history, and he's not even president yet.
Austria didn't want to make the same mistake twice. Glad they saw the light.
I don't have an ignore list. I read it all, baby. Or at least scroll through it. I must have been making an idle threat...
Is that a challenge? See if you can get to the ignore status without a ban? hmmmm... I'm not one to pass on a challege... ... One second thought, I've got too many things to get done. I should go back to radio silence as I got some new projects for the new year and thinking about doing a kickstarter project and never done one before.
No no, that was a joke about the idle threat, man! But I really don't have an ignore list. I read most of the posts in a thread if I start following it for awhile. Sometimes I might not know what to say in reply to one that I find pretty amazing
It's an interesting feeling being more or less awestruck by a post in PRSI. I mean I miss maxsix for that reason sometimes. I didn't care for many of his assertions but there was a certain sort of musicanship in some of his stuff; they were sometimes more like Gregorian chants than rants. Fascinating. Of course it's possible he was just depressed. I'd be depressed chanting about Hillary and Barack in that manner for a year and a half, or longer. See this is what's wrong with the key of c# minor. Have to change it up once in a while.
On your posts where I had put a couple one-liners: I just think this election was pretty hard to take any particular message from, past both left and right's exasperation with establishment governance (and annoyance over winding up with the pair of characters we got for candidates in the general election). It's fun to speculate who would have won in 2016 if both candidates had been someone else, eh?
Journalists, historians and think-tankers have been writing about this comeuppance being on the political horizon for Washington DC since back in the 70s. Remains to be seen what gets made of this year's "message" to the establishment. There is still a preponderance of sausage-makers on K street and in the Congress. It may have been a little bit of a mistake for Trump to have emphasized that he'd be changing that up. Changing who's stirring the pot doesn't necessarily mean changing how sausage gets made. Mr. Trump's a quick study when he wants to be. But the books he needs to study, in the Senate particularly, are very long, very arcane, very effective. That's for our own protection despite how annoying the results can be sometimes.
I'm not sure about that. The Dems had the easy win cycle in the Senate, in fact the Dems were supposed to win the Senate. The way it was supposed to go was Dems win White House, Senate and seats in the SC.
All three of those went the other way. The bar for the Dems was very low. They had a non-pro that couldn't stop shooting himself in the foot. They had a Dem favorable election in the Senate. They even had a surge in Dem voters from immigration and VA even changed the laws for felons to vote.
They lost in states that haven't voted GOP since Reagan.
This WAS the Dems "several free throws in a row, and fouled out all the key players" chance. They damaged their power based to the point where it might not be repairable.
Heck, the Dems can't even start the self reflection process, they were knocked out and have no path forward.
Not only that, but I feel like Trump's election will have a sort of "uh oh" effect on other countries.