Europe's Refugee/Migrant Crisis

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Populism, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #1
    Most of the PRSI threads seem to be US-centric.

    I'm interested in European PRSI'ers perspective of the refugee/migrant crisis occurring there. (I'm lifting words like "refugee" and "migrant" and "crisis" from article headlines. Not implying opinion, as I have none.) This appears to be a real-deal true crisis. Is it? What's the perspective over there, with regard to causes and solutions? The viral image of the drowned kid is horrible.

    If there's a thread on this already just ignore. Thanks.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...te-numbers-on-their-arms-in-ink-10482651.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/drowned-child-refugee-photo_55e70c46e4b0c818f619e0dd?yu6av2t9

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...al-highlighting-severity-europe/?intcmp=hpbt1
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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  3. Populism thread starter macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #3
    Indeed. Perhaps we need a fifth front-page PRSI thread on Donald Trump.
     
  4. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #4
    the U.S is bombing the living crap out of other nations, who the hell wants stay there?.
     
  5. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #5
    Europe should come together to devise a humanitarian solution to this issue; but one that does not go as far as offering permanent citizenship.

    Proposals have been made to fund camps and lodgings closer to Syria, with a view to repatriating once hostilities have died down (5 to 8 years?)

    Germany's open door policy is foolish and has exacerbated the problem - encouraging economic migrancy also. While there's a desperate need for refugees from wartorn nations to be given shelter, there's also a significant proportion of migrants from non-war zones who are taking advantage of this situation to try and enter Europe.

    Meanwhile rich Arab neighbouring nations stand by and do nothing.
     
  6. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #6
    What's the perspective? From my reading on this, there appears to be three types of perspectives.

    Perspective #1: Xenophobia.

    If you visit Hungary, you may encounter a billboard telling illegal immigrants to keep out (gee.. wonder where we've heard that one before?).

    http://www.npr.org/2015/09/02/436820775/hungarian-billboards-warn-migrants-to-stay-away


    Perspective #2: Confusion, Delay, and 'to Merkel.'


    What of Asylum? Well, in the EU, regardless of the country that would accept you, you must enter a country in the EU, then make your claim for asylum from that country. Since most are coming over land to the EU, if the country they are entering doesn't want you in it, you can't necessarily make the asylum claim from a country in the EU that refuses your entry into the country, even if another country in the EU is welcoming you. With that, you get impromptu, de facto camps in the most unusual places, like the train station.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/09/02/436820768/authorities-stop-migrants-in-budapest-from-rail-travel

    And what of Angela Merkel? Well, she's been silent on a number of issues, including asylum seekers, that 'Merkel' has become a verb in German youth vernacular.

    Perspective #3: We're small, but we're helping them out, dammit!


    Seeing that the rest of the EU can't make up its mind on what it should do, once place decided to take action: Iceland.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/09/02/436820838/iceland-considers-taking-in-more-syrian-refugees

    So there you have it. One country basing perspective on fear, paranoia and xenophobia, a second and one of the most powerful countries in the EU doing nothing (and that effect trickling down and playing a part in the xenophobia), and a small country putting vigilance aside, seeing the humanity in the situation, and doing something.

    So the call falls to where your allegiances lie: do they lie with your fears, your hesitation, or your judgment on doing what would be right thing to do? We can't answer that for you (general, not specifically you).

    BL.
     
  7. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #7
    I would like to point the main problem, it’s the fact that the EU is still 28 very different countries.

    Europe is not handling this very well, mainly because there is no coordination, there is no clear planning. Plus of course this cost a lot of money, this combined that a lot of Europe is mired in recession. In the end every problem comes down to money, and at this moment in Europe that’s in short supply.

    Like every thing in Europe it will take endless meetings (Heads of State) and lots of talking (Civil service Branches) before anything gets done.

    This is a mess and it’s not going to get better any time soon.



    One aspect which must not be over looked is the political.

    In the last decade Europe has seen a rise of anti immigration/anti European parties. These parties are playing on the fears of the general population, re-jobs housing, education, health care. This current crisis has made them very popular with a percentage of the population.

    The problem has been made worse because the established parties have made such a mess of this whole stituation.



    This is not going to be settled quickly, or without deep soul searching by the EU.
     
  8. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #8
    It's basic:

    10 US bombs Syria
    20 Syrians flee to Europe
    30 GOTO 10
     
  9. juanm, Sep 2, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015

    juanm macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Actually, it's more like "10: Western countries and Russia mess with Afghanistan, Irak, Lybia and Syria. Chaos ensues."
    I don't always like the US's policies in the Middle East, but without Russia's opposition to an early intervention, perhaps Syria might not be the mess it's now. Although when we see how Lybia ended up after the Western bombings, it's hard to imagine a good outcome.
     
  10. juanm, Sep 2, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015

    juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #10
    I'd like to point out that Barcelona and Madrid's newly elected mayors are also trying to move to help rehouse refugees in makeshift refugee-cities. Whether or not it'll be allowed by the Popular Party (national level) is another story.
    http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/09/01/madrid/1441120620_596650.html

    It's also very important to note that what Europe is seeing is a very, very small percentage of the actual number of refugees. Most Syrian refugees have moved to Lebanon.

    The US and the EU need to really bomb the **** out of ISIS and Assad, ASAP before this gets even more out of hand. Screw Russia, at this point I don't think they even really care anymore about supporting Assad's regime.
     
  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    IMO, the refugees with the wherewithal and means to successfully make it to Europe are precisely the ones that their home countries can't afford to lose. It's like a brain-drain.
     
  12. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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    #12
    The problem with the "Early intervention" plans is they were all backing the wrong side. Assad is, by far, the lesser of two evils in Syria. Russia was right on this one. You know what they say about stopped clocks.
     
  13. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #13
    My question is are the other countries in the middle east and the Arabian peninsula doing enough?
     
  14. juanm, Sep 2, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015

    juanm macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Someone who had stockpiled tons of mustard gas and has been barrel-bombing its own people is not the lesser of two evils. He deserves the Tomahawk treatment as much as Al Baghdadi.

    There was a problem with the early intervention, yes, and it was the same as in Libya: there was no obvious alternative to the previous government, and none of the countries involved wanted to get into building a country from scratch.
    Exterminating ISIS (I know it's impossible) and Ousting Assad from power would only be one step in the right direction.
    One of the root problems is that the borders were decided after WWI without taking into account the reality in the field, and any long term solution would involve re-drawing countries according to religious, ethnic, economical, and cultural facts.
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

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    #15
    Jordan and Lebanon are helping. I don't believe any other Middle Eastern country is doing squat.
     
  16. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #16
    Then I would say the pressure should be put on them, not Europe.
     
  17. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #17
    The Islamic theocracies want to push Islam into Europe (again).

    Why stop what's turning into a good thing? Got to think about the long game.
     
  18. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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    #18
    So by all means, let's help IS and Al Quaida because, you know, beheading and immolation are so much better. And he isn't barrel bombing his own people, he's barrel bombing rebels who hide among the people. Not excusable but far less hyperbolic than your claim.

    I stand my my assertion that Assad is, BY FAR, the lesser of evils. Same goes for Hussein, Qaddafi and Mubarak. They all suck but the alternatives have proven time and again to suck infinitely more.
     
  19. juanm, Sep 2, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015

    juanm macrumors 65816

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    #19
    Seriously? Then why do refugees fleeing ISIS and Al Nusra go to Europe, Jordan an Lebanon instead of going to Regime-controlled territories? I get your point, and I agree he was the lesser of two evils four years ago, but at this point he's not even a guarantee of stability, so he has to go (ideally to the Hague, although the chances of that happening are next to zero).
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

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    #20
    Barrel bombs are not that picky.
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    he doesn't deserve anything, at least from our end, we had no business getting involved in Libya & we have no business interfering with Syria.
     
  22. aaronvan Suspended

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    #22
    Many refugee are Sunni and fear Assad's Shi'a regime as much as they fear ISIS. Probably many other reasons, too. Their culture is (among other things) many layers of religious, tribal, clan, and familial loyalties; too complex and opaque for our Western ken. I once spoke to a Brit intelligence officer who told me after 12 years in Northern Ireland he still couldn't say he really understood the culture. That was the main problems we had over there: just who the **** was loyal to who? We never cracked that cultural understanding nut--at least not in my time--and I doubt we ever will.

    Anyway, if Bush had gone into Afghanistan, overthrew the Taliban, and gotten right back out and never gone into Iraq, that region would be a lot less messy than it is now. /rant
     
  23. Populism thread starter macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #23
    Hi, skunk. Don't know you, but from your posts I've read I'm guessing you ain't from 'Merica.

    Genuinely interested in your thoughts on the thread issue, if you care to share.
     
  24. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #24
    It's America. Say it correctly or don't say it.
     
  25. Populism thread starter macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #25
    Thanks for the heads up.

    'Merica
     

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