Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by edk99, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/europes-...nder-draft-plan-170708335--sector.html?ref=gs

    So they are proposing to collect social security taxes from whatever they are going to define as an "electronic persons" who does not receive an income nor will ever collect social security. Will these "electronic persons" also have voting rights and other rights? Brilliant! Go EU.
     
  2. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #2
    Sounds right.

    Why would the regimes in europe not charge "social security" payments from robots?
     
  3. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #3
    Hey, I've watched enough post-apocalyptic movies to know what ultimately happens if you deny robots their rights!


    Actually, as the article clearly says, the point is to reduce the incentive of replacing human workers. A serious concern as robots grow increasiningly capable.
     
  4. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #4
    Wow, I can finally utter the words "Someone watches way too much Star Trek" - like where the android is put on trial to determine if it is a living being, or if the hologram is put on trial so it can talk about "photonics" (holograms given sentient life status)...
     
  5. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #5
    One day a sentient machine will be made, and we will face issues like this. However this has more to do with the fact that machines never need to eat or sleep. Even slave labor will not be able to compete with machines in the long run.
     
  6. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #6
    It's an unemployment tax in disguise.
     
  7. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #7
    Of course it is.

    Europeans love fees and taxes.

    Just wait until they charge the robot income tax and the employeer tax tax.
     
  8. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #8
    This article is woefully incomplete, as if it was written expressly for the purpose of making the European Union seem bureaucratic and irrelevant. In any functioning civil society, the reporter would include such details as

    • The name (or number) of the motion
    • The author of the motion
    • Textual excerpts from the motion
    Instead, what the readers of the article are left with is the vague impression that the parliament exists in a separate reality, and debates issues that are not relevant to the real world.

    If the motion is laughable, then let us find the motion and read it for ourselves. If the motion has important consequences, then tell us what those consequences are. Don't use it as a ****ing excuse to incorporate hyperlinks to your ****ing stock listings.
     
  9. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #9
    Yahoo news is not exactly a bastion of high quality journalism. You highlighted one of the reasons. Sometimes they omit supporting information.
     
  10. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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  11. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Most likely just an idea of the farleft parties in the EU parliament, just as real as Teabaggers trying to repeal Romneycare for the 347th time.


    As for the idea, if automation really goes as far as some hope/fear societies need to rethink were to collect taxes to stay operational.

    Relying as heavy on earned wages as today just won't do it in that scenario.
     
  12. villicodelirant macrumors 6502

    villicodelirant

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    #12
    That's debatable.

    No, wait, that's actually not debatable, it's simply completely insane to the ears anybody who has a background in computer science and has had to rote-learn the A* algorithm at some point in life.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #13
    Sentient beings have been created before or we wouldn't be debating this, so it is entirely possible, whether us humans are able to accomplish it is another debate. surely not with the tech we have today. Either way sentient beings isn't really the first concern, automation is. (SE at large tech firm)
    --- Post Merged, Jun 25, 2016 ---
    Also charging social security for chunks of metal is ridiculous, and where do you draw the line? Computers put tons of people out work, bring back the slide rule!
     
  14. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    Wow, a humorous and intelligent reply amidst the blather. The issue of worker jobs being replaced by robots is a real issue in humanity's near future.
     
  15. Arran macrumors 68040

    Arran

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    #15
    No, they're not proposing that at all.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 25, 2016 ---
    I don't think we need any of that for this article. It's obviously click-bait for those who lap up this kind of nonsense.
     
  16. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #16
    Does this mean I have to pay taxes for Siri on all my iOS devices (and OS X). If I disable her must I still pay?

    Is Siri one "electronic person"... Or millions?
     
  17. villicodelirant macrumors 6502

    villicodelirant

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    #17
    I was ruling out the aid of God Almighty and/or alien beings, you know, for the sake of realism :p
     
  18. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #18
    It took a few billion years, but nature came up with a sentient machine. I'm sure will be able to do it a lot faster than that. Not like any computer today obviously, but rather an artificial neural network.
     
  19. villicodelirant macrumors 6502

    villicodelirant

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    #19
    ANNs can yield pretty impressive classifiers nowadays, assuming you have the raw hardware power to train them (GPGPU is becoming increasingly popular), but I wouldn't call them "sentient" with any more ease than I would call "sentient" a decision tree.

    That's irrespective of the number of hidden units short of resorting to the Matrix argument - i.e. a variation of "let's simulate the tiniest subatomic particles, thus simulating sentient animals", which is unachievable.
     
  20. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #20
    Ridiculous. Luddite leftists vainly forcing reality to conform with their worldview and soon to be crushed under the wheels of science and industry. The UK was wise to quit themselves of these moldy old Marxists.
     
  21. APlotdevice, Jun 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016

    APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #21
    But the fact of the matter is that nature did it: The human brain is a sentient electrochemical machine. Humanity will strive to replicate that.

    But again, this is besides the point. We face the far more immediate concern of automation taking away countless jobs.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 25, 2016 ---
    I don’t think you appreciate the fact that machines will one day be able to do pretty much all low skill, and even some higher skill tasks. This could well be a far bigger upheaval in our society than the one we experienced when going from agrarian to industrial.
     
  22. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #22
    Change is always disruptive. Ice cutters, plague doctors, and dirigible manufactures decried the march of progress back in their day. However, no one today would surrender their refrigerators, penicillin, and fine Boeing airplanes to maintain jobs in antique industries.
     
  23. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #23
    True, change is hard. But this change may be the hardest one we’ve ever made. In the past when one low skill job is eliminated, new ones crop up in their place. That’s just not going to happen this time. Machines will ultimately be able to do all the repetitive, low skill tasks. Sure will need people to maintain those machines, but that will be just a few highly skilled workers.
     
  24. Renzatic Suspended

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    #24
    I think a sentient machine is an inevitability, but it's all but obvious we don't have the technology to do anything more than rudimentary AI now. Silicon just can't provide enough efficiency to produce something as intelligent as us in as small a package, and quantum computing is only now just one step beyond being a theoretical concept.

    I'd say we're at least, at least 100 years away from being able to create a sentient AI, and likely 300 years or more from the Geek Rapture, aka The Singularity (if that even ever comes to pass).
     
  25. localoid macrumors 68020

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    #25
    Welcome to the future.

    AlphaGo is a computer program developed by Google DeepMind in London that uses a combination of machine learning and tree search techniques, combined with extensive training, both from human and computer play.

     

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