Even with illegal immigrants, America is facing declining population, acute labor shortage.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    Even with illegal immigrants, America is facing declining population, acute labor shortage.

    A few days ago VP Pence said in a campaign rally about Americans need to have more babies (but not addressing policies that dissuade having babies).

    Truth is, American population is on the decline. There are plenty of articles on this fact.
    WaPo June 30, 2017
    NYT May 16, 2018
    NPR May 17, 2018
    Vox May 22, 2018
    The Economist Oct 31st 2018

    Japan is having a nearly identical crises, they are experiencing some severe labor shortages and anticipated massive shortfalls in tax income, and are actually stretching and bending their visa rules to get around there exceeding strict immigration policies.
    Republicans know this, and some, like Rubio, are clearly trying to allow for more immigrants in the US, but of source there is enormous resistance to this.

    Meanwhile industries that rely heavily on immigrant labor (agricultural) and one of the largest Republican supporter will likely be the biggest proponents for increase immigration.
     
  2. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    122 views, no comment.
    Even the conservatives here realize what is happening?
     
  3. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    It's normal for economically developed nations to see a drop in population increase.

    A labor shortage is good for poor workers, tends to drive wages higher. There are still working people in the US with problems with housing security, food security, and heat for the winter security.
     
  4. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    Logically makes sense, however it seems many of the US poor are unwilling/unable to take those jobs, especially if they are distant.
    And companies have only recently started to increase wages.

    And the lack of income is a factor in lower birth rate.
     
  5. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    I think poor people tend to have more babies, not the other way around. It's gotten so bad in Germany, they will basically pay German women to get pregnant and have a child.

    It's ingrained in our DNA, when we are stressed, when we feel insecure in our living situation, to procreate and carry on the human race.
     
  6. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    Unwilling is no excuse, unable to take those jobs can occur for a variety of reasons. It's it's lack of skills, train them.
     
  7. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

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    Not seeing it. Here in Cali, home of some major agriculture, it is the dairy industry that is eating the immigrants, not the farmland. Still, many of these could easily be robotized however the owners don't want to invest until they have to. The tech exists.

    I suspect that if we look a bit deeper, many areas that claim "shortage" could benefit from the same.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 6, 2018 ---
    There is a reason working two jobs in the "fast food" or "part time" buckets is considered normal employment instead of supplemental employment.
     
  8. AlliFlowers Contributor

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    Canada is also experiencing a decline and looking for immigrants.

    It's a pity they have to come through the US to get to Canada.
     
  9. hawkeye_a, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018

    hawkeye_a macrumors 65816

    hawkeye_a

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    And a shrinking population is bad because...?

    Why is a constantly growing population more desirable than a stable/shrinking population?

    When would it be big enough for the US....500 million, 1 billion, 2 billion, 4 billion? Even more than that? Who are you(or i) to say what the optimum level is?

    If a society self regulates(via culture, laws, religion, whatever) population levels, theres no need to pretend like there’s an issue. If fluctuations need changes in laws/culture to promote families to have more/less children or change other policies to cope with population changes, they’ll come up in elections.

    Who knows, a labor shortage might cause a rise in wages which would encourage families to have more children. (One of many factors which i assume would influence a family’s decision).

    And as i’ve said before... through, and at the end of it all, Japan will still be Japan, and i think that’s a good thing, which isnt something which can be said of a place like Europe.

    IMHO

    Cheers
     
  10. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    Not really. I studied food systems in graduate school and am in some fairly prominent discussion forums on food system and farming related issues. The consensus is that much of the promised tech actually isn't ready.
     
  11. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    If there was enough immigrants than both industries would have their work force.
    Apparently the diary group can pay more.

    "considered normal employment"?
    --- Post Merged, Nov 7, 2018 ---
    Who said growing population?

    One wants to have a productive labor force to support the retired labor force.
    Both my parents need help with day to day living, taking a lot of time and effort for care.
    Assisted living places have a ratio of 8 patients to 1 caregiver or greater.
     
  12. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    How ironic we hear about the cost of illegal immigrants, when we need these people. Even as slaves, we’d need to keep them healthy. :rolleyes: Sounds like the Republicans have been sold a bill of goods. :oops:
     
  13. Mousse macrumors 68000

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    I gotta see the source for that claim. It doesn't make sense a species to increase its population when it's faced with a possible lack of resources. That would only worsen the already strained living conditions.
    In my unscientific opinion, poor people have more babies because they don't have any other source of... umm... entertainment.:oops::oops::oops: We're having less babies now because of the Internet.:D Give the poor broadband and they won't have a lot of babies.o_O:p:D
     
  14. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

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    When this came up back in 2016, we had some local meetings (our area has a lot of farming) as folks were concerned. The farmers / business owners here felt that non-human was doable for most crops; there was a lot of concern about berries and grapes, it was the cost of implementation that was worrying.
    Having minimal knowledge myself, I am just reiterating what was discussed.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 7, 2018 ---
    Not sure on the why. Could be that or maybe not having to travel.

    Jobs like fast food and other part time work was originally identified as lobs that provide supplemental income. That is no longer the case. Hasn't been for a bit. Many low income households now utilize multiple part time jobs as the main wage earning for a family.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 7, 2018 ---
    There are times when I just cannot see where you are coming from.
     
  15. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    Who is the enemy, illegal immigrants. Who wants to build a trillion dollar wall to keep them out? Why? It’s looking like we need these people’s help. You’ve heard about crops rotting in the fields, yes? Then we hear about them costing us money with their emergency room health care and social services. But it looks like we need them. Agriculture really needs them.

    It seems if we need them, we need them to be healthy and at least somewhat happy. Yet, they are villains, when they do the jobs virtually no Americans will perform. :rolleyes: This seems like more Republican BS, a great wedge issue to get certain citizens to vote for them.
     

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14 November 5, 2018