Everything you need to know about drugs


citizenzen

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Mar 22, 2010
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It's interesting how easily we fall for propaganda and misinformation.

Thanks for sharing those videos.
 

Andeavor

macrumors 6502
Aug 19, 2010
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I've known this for a long time, but it's not like people listen to me, I'm supposed to have no clue about the real world....
 

MorphingDragon

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Mar 27, 2009
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Pleasantly surprised that it wasn't blocked for overseas viewers. Good watch, both people had really great energy.

However the only thing I ever needed to know about drugs was how to make Honey Oil. ;)

I don't make Honey Oil, at least not until I live somewhere where it's legal.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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The opening statement of the article is more than just a little disingenuous.

Meth mouth fake? Please...

It's not fake, it's just not directly caused by the meth. Instead it's thought to be caused by some of the side effects of the meth such as dry mouth, poor nutrition, and general abandonment of personal hygiene.

And meth has the same effect on the brain as Adderal? This is true; but it shouldn't be cited as a reason to take Meth. Adderal is (or should be) prescribed by a licensed physician, who can monitor the patient for adverse effects and who can control the amount of drug given to the patient. Also, it isn't prescribed for recreational use, but requires a documented diagnosis of a disorder for which the drug is indicated for the physician to legally prescribe it.

We may as well justify the use of heroin because it has the same effect on the body as Morphine, Percocet, or other Opiate pain drugs right?
 
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Huntn

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May 5, 2008
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Yep, they allow you to see the entire world as an opportunity to score your next fix.
When I tried grass in college, it did heighten my perception as compared to alcohol and no, I had no desire to step up to the next level, nor did I become addicted. Not saying your are totally wrong, but your view holds no merit as a blanket statement.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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Throw some stats up about how many people kill themselves with alcohol. Do we ban that?
Throw up some stats that show Alcohol being even remotely in the same realm as Heroin in terms of the progressiveness of its use.

Plenty of people can drink alcohol in complete moderation, never or very rarely becoming intoxicated, and not needing to constantly increase their "dose" to get the same effect.

Heroin doesn't work that way. It's entirely different in a multitude of ways.

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When I tried grass in college, it did heighten my perception as compared to alcohol and no, I had no desire to step up to the next level, nor did I become addicted. Not saying your are totally wrong, but your view holds no merit as a blanket statement.
I never said it did, nor did I intend it as a blanket statement. But isn't the article mainly about hard drugs?
 

Andeavor

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Aug 19, 2010
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Tolerance and addiction is relative. I know people who can drink tons of alcohol and still stand upright at closing time while others fall under the table before finishing their first glass. I know people who take drugs on a regular basis but are productive members of society while others can't seem to keep away from it, throwing away everything that's dear to them.

Don't paint everything with the same brush, There are nuances and different levels of susceptibility when it comes to alcohol and drugs. I quit smoking within three weeks and have never looked back and I've also tried some heavy drugs not that long ago and haven't turned into a criminal.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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Throw up some stats that show Alcohol being even remotely in the same realm as Heroin in terms of the progressiveness of its use.

Plenty of people can drink alcohol in complete moderation, never or very rarely becoming intoxicated, and not needing to constantly increase their "dose" to get the same effect.

Heroin doesn't work that way. It's entirely different in a multitude of ways.

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I never said it did, nor did I intend it as a blanket statement. But isn't the article mainly about hard drugs?
Good point my bad. Heroin is dangerous. :eek:
 

SLC Flyfishing

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Tolerance and addiction is relative. I know people who can drink tons of alcohol and still stand upright at closing time while others fall under the table before finishing their first glass. I know people who take drugs on a regular basis but are productive members of society while others can't seem to keep away from it, throwing away everything that's dear to them.

Don't paint everything with the same brush, There are nuances and different levels of susceptibility when it comes to alcohol and drugs. I quit smoking within three weeks and have never looked back and I've also tried some heavy drugs not that long ago and haven't turned into a criminal.
You appear to be an exception to a nearly universal rule with respect to your ability to kick tobacco as easily as you did. Congratulations.

Tolerance and addiction are completely separate entities. Tolerance is your body's "adjustment" to the effects of a specific substance. I had cancer patients on the Palliative care service who were taking scarily high doses of dilaudid on a daily basis to control their pain. This is because of the body's tendency to become tolerant.

Addiction is more of a psychological condition. And is the tough part to overcome. Any appropriate amount of time spent away from an opiate pain killer will allow the body to overcome the tolerance. But the psychological need for the drug is devastatingly difficult or impossible to get past for most.
 
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palmerc2

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Feb 29, 2008
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Yep, they allow you to see the entire world as an opportunity to score your next fix.
I've met a lot of functional, and highly successful recreational drug users who wouldn't hurt anyone / anything to "score" or get their "fix". I'm not referring to heroin at all by the way, I've never met a heroin user and will never do heroin....that's one nasty drug.

Throw up some stats that show Alcohol being even remotely in the same realm as Heroin in terms of the progressiveness of its use.

Plenty of people can drink alcohol in complete moderation, never or very rarely becoming intoxicated, and not needing to constantly increase their "dose" to get the same effect.

Heroin doesn't work that way. It's entirely different in a multitude of ways.
Plenty of people can do drugs (such as cocaine and ecstasy) in complete moderation. I've met many of them. In my opinion drugs such as cocaine, ecstasy, and marijuana have such a negative view by society. In moderation, it's no worse than alcohol (in my opinion)
 

palmerc2

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Tolerance and addiction is relative. I know people who can drink tons of alcohol and still stand upright at closing time while others fall under the table before finishing their first glass. I know people who take drugs on a regular basis but are productive members of society while others can't seem to keep away from it, throwing away everything that's dear to them.

Don't paint everything with the same brush, There are nuances and different levels of susceptibility when it comes to alcohol and drugs. I quit smoking within three weeks and have never looked back and I've also tried some heavy drugs not that long ago and haven't turned into a criminal.
You literally took the words out of my mind, in fact I think I may even save it it's so good.
 
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SLC Flyfishing

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I've met a lot of functional, and highly successful recreational drug users who wouldn't hurt anyone / anything to "score" or get their "fix". I'm not referring to heroin at all by the way, I've never met a heroin user and will never do heroin....that's one nasty drug.



Plenty of people can do drugs (such as cocaine and ecstasy) in complete moderation. I've met many of them. In my opinion drugs such as cocaine, ecstasy, and marijuana have such a negative view by society. In moderation, it's no worse than alcohol (in my opinion)
OK good, so we agree on Heroin.

Now on to Cocaine; I've met plenty of people who can't control their craving for the drug, who have been in jail for robbery or assault and battery while trying to "score their next fix" as they say. I've met them through my previous job which involved interacting with such people on a daily basis.

I've also met people who've done some pretty awful things while under the influence of Cocaine, Meth, Spice, PCP, etc.

So we have my (somewhat) vast experience with drug users, and your experience with drug users. The two seem to contradict. Where do you suggest we go to get better information on this subject?

And for the record, Ecstasy and Marijuana are not really addictive drugs in the sense that they don't seem to produce a physical addiction (though I have met people who have had trouble giving up Ecstasy). So I'm not referring to those drugs when I respond to this thread.

That's not to say that those two aren't without health risks, they most certainly do carry risk.
 

palmerc2

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OK good, so we agree on Heroin.

Now on to Cocaine; I've met plenty of people who can't control their craving for the drug, who have been in jail for robbery or assault and battery while trying to "score their next fix" as they say. I've met them through my previous job which involved interacting with such people on a daily basis.

I've also met people who've done some pretty awful things while under the influence of Cocaine, Meth, Spice, PCP, etc.

So we have my (somewhat) vast experience with drug users, and your experience with drug users. The two seem to contradict. Where do you suggest we go to get better information on this subject?

And for the record, Ecstasy and Marijuana are not really addictive drugs in the sense that they don't seem to produce a physical addiction (though I have met people who have had trouble giving up Ecstasy). So I'm not referring to those drugs when I respond to this thread.

That's not to say that those two aren't without health risks, they most certainly do carry risk.
I'm pretty sure everyone knows the risk when doing drugs. As far as those other drugs you mentioned, I've never met anyone who has done them. I've met and relate myself to people who do cocaine, ecstasy, and marijuana. Let's take marijuana out of the conversation and stick with cocaine and ecstasy. I guess like anything it's the end users actions which define how the drug affects them. It's really too bad the coke addicts who can't control their craving you've met have done that to society and themselves. Quite frankly they shouldn't be near any kind of addictive substance, even over the counter pain killers. My experience has been the exact opposite. I associate those drugs with freedom of expression, doing things differently. I'd definitely say that's because I've associated myself with people who are the same way.

Just my perspective....
 
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chown33

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Aug 9, 2009
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So we have my (somewhat) vast experience with drug users, and your experience with drug users. The two seem to contradict. Where do you suggest we go to get better information on this subject?
There's only a contradiction if you assume that each group is a representative sample. On the other hand, if we assume an intrinsic selection bias is present for each group, then there's no contradiction at all.

The selection bias of your group is basically "people who can't control their craving". Think about it: if they could control their craving, or had no craving at all, then you wouldn't be seeing them at all. It's only the people who have no control that you see.

The selection bias of palmerc2's groups is the exact opposite: people who can control the craving, or who perhaps don't experience a craving at all. Again, think about it: if they had so much craving that they ruined their lives trying to score the next hit, he wouldn't see them at all, but you would.

It's not just a selection bias in a statistical sense. It's the fundamental nature of the two groups to not overlap. It also takes a subsequent conclusion (by you or by palmerc2) that each of your perceived groups is a representative sample.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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There's only a contradiction if you assume that each group is a representative sample. On the other hand, if we assume an intrinsic selection bias is present for each group, then there's no contradiction at all.

The selection bias of your group is basically "people who can't control their craving". Think about it: if they could control their craving, or had no craving at all, then you wouldn't be seeing them at all. It's only the people who have no control that you see.

The selection bias of palmerc2's groups is the exact opposite: people who can control the craving, or who perhaps don't experience a craving at all. Again, think about it: if they had so much craving that they ruined their lives trying to score the next hit, he wouldn't see them at all, but you would.

It's not just a selection bias in a statistical sense. It's the fundamental nature of the two groups to not overlap. It also takes a subsequent conclusion (by you or by palmerc2) that each of your perceived groups is a representative sample.
This is exactly what I was giving palmerc2 a chance to pick up on on his own.

So where do you suggest people go to make an informed decision about illicit drugs?
 

lannister80

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Apr 7, 2009
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Now on to Cocaine; I've met plenty of people who can't control their craving for the drug, who have been in jail for robbery or assault and battery while trying to "score their next fix" as they say. I've met them through my previous job which involved interacting with such people on a daily basis.
And how many more did you never meet because their lives are just fine?

You're like the car mechanic who's convinced all cars are crap and constantly break because all you see are broken cars all day long.

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So where do you suggest people go to make an informed decision about illicit drugs?
www.erowid.org
 
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