Ex-Trump campaign aide pleaded guilty to lying to agents in Russia inquiry

samcraig

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Oh Georgie... how could you?

As noted in the article, I am sure there will be a huge denial from Trump's team that they barely knew him...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/30/george-papadopoulos-trump-campaign-aide-pleaded-guilty-lying-agents-russia-inquiry?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty on 5 October to one count of lying to FBI agents about the nature of his interactions with “foreign nationals” who he thought had close connections to senior Russian government officials.

The plea was unsealed on Monday – the same day Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, and a business associate, Rick Gates, were charged with money laundering, tax evasion, fraud and failing to register as agents of foreign interests.

But Papadopoulos is the first person to face criminal charges that cite interactions between Trump campaign associates and Russian intermediaries during the 2016 presidential campaign.

Papadopoulos was a member of the campaign’s foreign policy team. But Trump aides have said he played a limited role in the campaign and had no access to Trump.

(more via link)
 

yaxomoxay

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So collusion between members of the Trump campaign and Russia is now proven, the only question is how far up does it go?
By reading the pdf it seems that the dude tried to gain power and money by selling his connections to the DJT campaign, but he failed. Of course, more can come up in the next weeks, so I’ll wait on the investigation.
 

vrDrew

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Trump meeting with his National Security Team, March 31, 3016.

Papadopoulos is seated four places to the right of Trump, looking at Jeff Sessions. Papadopoulos claims he was named part of Trump's National Security Team with the express mission of improving relations with Russia. Papadopoulos claims that at this meeting he told attendees he could arrange a meeting between Trump and Vladimir Putin.

Yeah. It's all a "nothingburger".
 

yaxomoxay

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Trump meeting with his National Security Team, March 31, 3016.

Papadopoulos is seated four places to the right of Trump, looking at Jeff Sessions. Papadopoulos claims he was named part of Trump's National Security Team with the express mission of improving relations with Russia. Papadopoulos claims that at this meeting he told attendees he could arrange a meeting between Trump and Vladimir Putin.

Yeah. It's all a "nothingburger".
Do you realize that nothing in that picture, and nothing in your text constitutes a crime, right? I mean, by all means keep investigating and jail whoever did crap. But it seems to me that Mr. Papadopolous is the one that did something wrong while anyone else was unaware of it (until we find out more about this). It’s not a crime to say “I can help arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin”.
 

vrDrew

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Do you realize that nothing in that picture, and nothing in your text constitutes a crime,
But Papadopoulos has already confessed to lying to investigators.

Why did he lie in the first place? Why did he make arrangements to meet with an individual who had Russian-sourced "dirt" on Hillary Clinton? Why was an inexperienced sleazeball like Papadopoulos even on Trump's "National Security" team in the first place?

Why did Donald Trump Jr. readily sit down and chat with Russians who promised similar "dirt" on Hillary Clinton? Why did Donald Trump, just a few months after that meeting, literally tell Russia to publish Clinton's e-mails?

Just coincidence?
 

yaxomoxay

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But Papadopoulos has already confessed to lying to investigators.

Why did he lie in the first place? Why did he make arrangements to meet with an individual who had Russian-sourced "dirt" on Hillary Clinton? Why was an inexperienced sleazeball like Papadopoulos even on Trump's "National Security" team in the first place?

Why did Donald Trump Jr. readily sit down and chat with Russians who promised similar "dirt" on Hillary Clinton? Why did Donald Trump, just a few months after that meeting, literally tell Russia to publish Clinton's e-mails?

Just coincidence?
They are all legit questions which I am confident the investigation will find an awswer to. As I said, I am for the investigation to continue and possibly at full throttle.
 

LordVic

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I think I may have screwed up that timeline a little.


Point 35 near the end

35. On July 27, 2017, defendant PAPADOPOULKOS was arrested upon his arrival at Dulles International Airport. Following his arrest, Defendant PAPADOPOULOS met with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions.
i'm now confused if this meant "Government" as in Trump Administration, or FBI.

here's the full statement

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163402/Papadopoulos-Statement-Offense.pdf
 

LordVic

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Yeah I [quickly] read the document earlier, that’s why I asked for the source. I don’t think it supports your earlier statement, that’s why I asked.
sorry, had editted that post, just not in time for your reply. See above. I put the statement that I believe is offering some confusion into that timeline.
 
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vrDrew

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They are all legit questions which I am confident the investigation will find an awswer to. As I said, I am for the investigation to continue and possibly at full throttle.
Yeah well, James Comey was overseeing an investigation into the matter, and he got fired by Trump. And Trump has since reportedly numerous times considered firing Mueller.

As far as Trump's personal involvement is concerned? I think a plausible case can now be made that was at least aware that Russian sources had access to material hacked from e-mail accounts connected to Hillary Clinton. If not from Papadopoulos, then from his son. His (other) advisors may have brushed off the offers. But then we have his own (bizarre) call for Russia to release Clinton's e-mails in July of 2016.

I thought that public statement from Trump was extremely unusual, and more than a little troubling, at the time. In retrospect, and knowing what we know today? Truly frightening.
 

LordVic

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Yeah well, James Comey was overseeing an investigation into the matter, and he got fired by Trump. And Trump has since reportedly numerous times considered firing Mueller.
If i'm not mistaken by the timeline.

the FBI interview where Papadopolous lied to the FBI was Jan 27th. Which is also the same day where Trump demanded Comey's allegiance.

That can't be coincidental.
 

VulchR

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OK - on the one hand this seems like a case of incompetence to me in addition to dishonesty, but on the other hand it is against the law for a private citizen to conduct foreign policy with another nation with whom the US has disputes. That law makes sense to me, and I do not like it being subverted by stunts like this (nor Reagan's deal with Iran).
 
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MadeTheSwitch

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Why did Donald Trump Jr. readily sit down and chat with Russians who promised similar "dirt" on Hillary Clinton? Why did Donald Trump, just a few months after that meeting, literally tell Russia to publish Clinton's e-mails?

Just coincidence?
Even worse, during the time that Jr. was meeting with the Russians to gather dirt, Trump was telling people at a campaign rally that they would be having a big announcement on Hillary:

"I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week and we're going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons," Trump said tonight
http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-to-give-major-hillary-speech-monday/article/2002733

That was on June 7th 2016 When was junior's meeting set up with the Russians? On June 3rd. The meeting occurred just a few days later:

On June 9, the Russian lawyer was sitting in the younger Mr. Trump’s office on the 25th floor of Trump Tower, just one level below the office of the future president.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

Oh and that big announcement? It never occurred. What a coincidence! (Yeah right)
 
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vrDrew

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One thing I think all ought to do:

Stop using the word "collusion" in connection with Russia's influence in the 2016 election and the Trump Campaign.

Collusion is not itself a crime - except as it relates to anti-trust law. (If you and a bunch of your competitors get together and agree to fix prices, or to pay artificially low wages to certain types of employees.)

When Donald Trump Tweets that he didn't "collude" with Russia, that statement is - legally speaking - meaningless. What would be illegal would be if agents of the Trump Campaign sought and/or knowingly received "anything of value" from agents of a foreign power. That is very definitely illegal. And "anything of value" doesn't have to be cash campaign contributions. It most definitely could be the receipt or publication of documents stolen from DNC or Clinton Campaign computers. Soliciting or knowingly accepting such gifts from a foreign power would be a violation of Federal Election law. Encouraging or soliciting the Russians to hack an opponent's computer devices would then also constitute Conspiracy to Commit Computer Crime. Another Felony. Lying to Federal investigators would be another. And deliberately firing investigators and prosecutors looking into those matters would then constitute deliberate Obstruction of Justice.

Don't look to see charges of "collusion" with Russia. Legally that almost certainly is not the case. DO look to see charges of violations of Federal Election Law. Do look to see charges of Conspiracy to commit computer crime. Do look to see charges of lying to investigators. And - ultimately - expect to see Obstruction of Justice charges.
 

VulchR

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One thing I think all ought to do:

Stop using the word "collusion" in connection with Russia's influence in the 2016 election and the Trump Campaign.

Collusion is not itself a crime - except as it relates to anti-trust law. (If you and a bunch of your competitors get together and agree to fix prices, or to pay artificially low wages to certain types of employees.)

When Donald Trump Tweets that he didn't "collude" with Russia, that statement is - legally speaking - meaningless. What would be illegal would be if agents of the Trump Campaign sought and/or knowingly received "anything of value" from agents of a foreign power. That is very definitely illegal. And "anything of value" doesn't have to be cash campaign contributions. It most definitely could be the receipt or publication of documents stolen from DNC or Clinton Campaign computers. Soliciting or knowingly accepting such gifts from a foreign power would be a violation of Federal Election law. Encouraging or soliciting the Russians to hack an opponent's computer devices would then also constitute Conspiracy to Commit Computer Crime. Another Felony. Lying to Federal investigators would be another. And deliberately firing investigators and prosecutors looking into those matters would then constitute deliberate Obstruction of Justice.

Don't look to see charges of "collusion" with Russia. Legally that almost certainly is not the case. DO look to see charges of violations of Federal Election Law. Do look to see charges of Conspiracy to commit computer crime. Do look to see charges of lying to investigators. And - ultimately - expect to see Obstruction of Justice charges.
That being said, outright collusion - in the common use of the word - does seem probable to me, and that is a moral issue.
 

Zenithal

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30 YO and possibly ruined his career in politics if he manages to stay out of prison or gets a light sentencing. Just a kid. What an idiot.
 

0007776

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30 YO and possibly ruined his career in politics if he manages to stay out of prison or gets a light sentencing. Just a kid. What an idiot.
He should have thought about that before getting involved with Trump. Having service in the Trump admin on your resume is going to be about as valuable as having service in Nixon’s.

I would bet though that he will get off pretty light and turn in the bigger fish.
 

Peace

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Excuse me but collusion between a presidential candidate and or his/her employees and a foreign government with the express purpose of interfering with or effecting said presidential election is against the law.

Ex : Russian bots buying facebook accounts with the intention of spreading fake news , lies and falsehoods about the rival candidate with the permission and help of the candidate or the candidates employees.

I don't mean buying or even helping directly or indirectly to pay for a dossier on a rival candidate . Thats perfectly legal. Slimy but legal.

And if I were Donald Trump I would be looking for expertise in serious high level charges.

"The criminal justice interest being vindicated here is there's a large-scale ongoing investigation of which this case is a small part," said Aaron Zelinsky of the special counsel's office in a plea hearing for former campaign foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos that was unsealed on Monday.
 
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juanm

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By reading the pdf it seems that the dude tried to gain power and money by selling his connections to the DJT campaign, but he failed.
You have multiple arrows pointing in the same direction, but it’s just an inconsequential coincidence. That’s cute. Keep telling yourself that.
 
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oneMadRssn

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Even worse, during the time that Jr. was meeting with the Russians to gather dirt, Trump was telling people at a campaign rally that they would be having a big announcement on Hillary:


http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-to-give-major-hillary-speech-monday/article/2002733

That was on June 7th 2016 When was junior's meeting set up with the Russians? On June 3rd. The meeting occurred just a few days later:


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html

Oh and that big announcement? It never occurred. What a coincidence! (Yeah right)
Don't forget that the dinner where Trump told Comey he expects loyalty happened on January 27, 2017, the same day that the FBI interviewed Papadopoulos where he knowingly lied to the FBI. Coincidence that Trump tried to bully Comey on the same day one of Trump's guys was getting squeezed?

Either Trump knew what was going on the whole time during his campaign and as president was privy to the FBIs operations and tried to influence that investigation, or he's a clueless dumbass and it's all a curious coincidence.