Fat? Don't bother moving to NZ

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    A geographical oddity
    #1
    You won't be allowed in.

    I want to comment on this, but I just find it too bizarre. I can understand that, yes, she may be a burden on the health care system, but I wonder if she will be any more a burden than a smoker, cancer patient, AIDS patient, paraplegic, etc.

    Good to know that no country has a monopoly on absurd immigration regulations.
     
  2. ntrigue macrumors 68040

    ntrigue

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    #2
    I think that's wonderful! Walk sometime...you may like it!
     
  3. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #3
    If you read the article, it says that his employer provides a gym membership "scheme". My workplace, in addition to other health benefits, provides a gym pass "scheme" as well. I get 50% off of a Corporate Gold Plus membership at participating gyms, and participating gyms only. Interestingly enough, there are no participating gyms near my workplace (although there is one near my home). I also don't much care for running on a treadmill or doing pure weight training, so I also have a membership to a rock climbing gym, which I pay for entirely out of pocket.

    I find it interesting that my medical care is completely covered by the federal and provincial governments, and my workplace covers 100% of prescription medications up to somewhere around $50,000, but I'm still paying $80 per month for gym access. I'm not griping because the $80 is costly or prohibitive. However, I go to the gym to maintain my long-term health and wellness. Exercise helps prevent and manage high blood pressure. It helps prevent type II diabetes, certain cancers, osteoporosis, all kinds of obesity related illness, releases endorphins that help relieve stress and depression and increases the efficiency of your cardiovascular system. I'm sure there are lots of other health benefits I'm missing. The point that I'm making, however, is that regular exercise is a big part of healthcare, and that as a preventative measure it could saves thousands of dollars on healthcare for the conditions that it helps to prevent.

    I think that governments with national healthcare systems, such as New Zealand, should address the problems of preventative healthcare vs. "sickcare". While I don't necessarily agree with this particular measure, I think it's time for these problems to be tackled head on, not just to reduce the financial burden, but to improve the overall quality of life of citizenry.
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #4
    The US bans people with AIDS from even visiting much less immigrating. There are also plenty of other health issues that the US bans. Nothing new there, health restrictions have been in place since the mid 1800s on immigration to the US.

    The connection between obesity and a host of diseases is well established.

    It's sort of harsh, but why should the obese get a free ride?
     
  5. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    If the only way to exercise was to do so in a gym, I could understand your complaint. Walking is a wonderful exercise with very few dangers and amazing health benefits and it is free. Plus how many people get hurt while lifting weights. I have been to gyms all my life and I have seen so many people injured in various ways while working out there. It would be ironic for the government to pay for gym memberships to improve people's health and then pay for the health care to all those that get hurt there because they do not know what they are doing.
     
  6. Queso macrumors G4

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    #6
    The only issue I have with this is the reliance on BMI as the indicator, which is completely flawed. Someone who has virtually no body fat can be classed as obese under BMI despite eating and exercising healthily, just because they've developed their muscles.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Yep- here it comes. Pretty soon everyone will have to be exactly the same and behave in the same ways in order to do anything. F***ing ridiculous.
     
  8. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    Oct 9, 2006
    #8
    It sound harsh but I think it is a fine system. Some countries in this world if you are over 45 and/or do not have college degree do not bother applying because they will reject you.

    It is a said state the developed world is in heath wise. People are no longer staying in shape. They mostly just sit around and do nothing to stay in shape. It is sad countries have to enforce rules like this because the population fails so badly at it. I do not blame the governments for having to do such actions to protect themselves.

    It annoys me people will give looks and tell me to be quite if I complain about myself being out of shape because I am on the borderline between normal and underweight. My weight is hovers around 155lb and I am a male 6'4" Now me being out of shape is mostly because I feel like my stamina is not where it should be but hey it a personal opinion on where I should be.


    Lastly I might like to point out overweight is overweight it does not matter if it is mussel or not. Our bodies are not built to handle that much weight. It is to hard on our joints and bone frame.

    Now the only problem with the normal BMI is based on a normal bone frame. There are adjustment factors that can be applied based on your bone frame. For example some one with a large bone frame can have the scale adjusted up to around 20 lb depending on how tall they are. But at the same time a small bone frame has it adjusted down. BMI is really good at telling if there is to much strain being put on our bone frame and joints which does not matter if the weight is fat or mussel it is all the same to the bones and joints
     
  9. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #9
    That is a valid point.

    However I think one look at the picture will confirm it isn't muscle that is a problem here…
     
  10. wongulous macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    BMI is highly flawed. At 5'11", an average height, you have to be less than 215lbs to not be considered obese, and under 180 not to be considered "overweight." They honestly believe that a 5'11" man should weigh 132lbs and be healthy. I know football players, construction workers, bodybuilders, etc that can bench press twice that, have huge muscles, can sprint faster than lightning, run a mile in less than 5 minutes, and barely any fat on them (varies), and they are considered more obese than somebody with a 38-inch waist full of fat. What sense does this make?

    Ronnie Coleman, like 8-time Mr. Olympia, and probably the most famous bodybuilder on the planet, is 5'11" and 280 in competition form. Now, sure, he probably can't run a mile and make a record, but he could get in under 10 minutes. And, yeah, he's probably at one point or another used testosterone-enhancing illicit substances to be able to hit the gym that much and get enormous, but he's still healthy. That's pretty extreme, like 65lbs of muscle more than say Vin Diesel who might also get rejected.

    The point is, it's silly.

    I don't know about *her* being muscular, but he might be. Rugby player, clearly has some bodyfat in that wedding picture, but he might be able to bench 300 and maybe he had to go to a bodyfat percentage below what some other NZ-immigrant needed to reach BECAUSE of that muscle mass he was holding.

    And what happens if in 6 months they both gain 100lbs back on all that lovely NZ cooking, and he doesn't exercise his employer's "gym scheme" (probably a lame discount as said above)? Does the gubmint check up on him? Does he get free physicals with their healthcare? What do they do to SUPPORT people in the country being healthy, since they're turning away exterior unhealthy people? Surely they wouldn't harbor unhealthy citizens and do NOTHING but ask this man to lose the fat.
     
  11. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #11
    Like I said early some 280 lb body builder is Over weight. His bones and joints are under a lot of extra stress they are not built for. BMI is really good at looking at how much stress is on the bones.

    Also some one 5'11" it is not hard for them to be under 180lb. I am 6'4" and only one 155 lb. Now my weight is the low end of normal but still it should not be that hard for some one 5'11" to get under 180 lb believe other wise is a clear example of what is wrong with everyone. They think Overweight is normal and the way to go. Really it is not. this is why everyone is so unhealthy. L Ike I said before it is very sad that the government is being forced to step in to get its people healthy but something needed to be done because clearly the people can not do it.
     
  12. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #12
    I don't think anyone is disagreeing that someone closer to 300lbs is putting their skeletal structure under pressure that it's not designed for. However, weight-bearing exercise does increase bone mass so those with a slightly higher BMI who have muscle rather than fat do have the bones to take it.

    It also takes little account of build or, in the case of women, breast cup size - which although made up of fatty tissue, doesn't disappear unless you take yourself to stick-like proportions.

    Having said that, I'm not entirely convinced about this case since I don't think they should have accepted him without letting her along for the ride.
     
  13. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #13
    little known fact about the BMI is it can easily be made to take into account for the extra stuff just most of the time they fail to do so. My dad for example has what is called a large bone frame. What that does is it cause a shift in the BMI to correct for it.
    Just no one seems to do the correction.

    But that body builder at 280lb while the bone might be better and the joints might be a little better they still are way over stressed.
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #14
    Most people who have a high BMI are not football players, bodybuilders or construction workers and couldn't run a mile period.

    BMI is only "highly flawed" if you use it as your only metric for gauging health.
     
  15. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #15
    Exactly. BMI is a guideline, not the bible on health.

    I do agree though that bodybuilders and football players, unless they continue to train well into old age will suffer the consequences of their high body weight. Looking like the Incredible Hulk doesn't mean a person is healthy.

    I'll bet there are very, very few people with a BMI of 30 who are healthy.
     
  16. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #16
    Many of those injuries occur because people are engaging in exercises that they lack the proper training to do safely. If gym passes became available or subsidized, along with access to personal trainers or even basic classes -- which could be provided at the high school level -- injuries could be minimized. I also doubt that the number of exercise related injuries would put more of a strain on the healthcare system than obesity climbing to the killing rate of smoking.
     
  17. satty macrumors 6502

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    You can't beat Wellington on a good day
    #17
    I agree. Surely, there won't be an BMI issue, if a Fiji Rugby player wants to immigrate to NZ. Most of the rugby players nowadays have a BMI of approximately 30, which is classified as obese!
     
  18. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #18
    but the woman in question is clearly not some one who is fit but is truely obese. Also anyone who is a 30 on the BMI scale is at a unhealthy weight. The bones and joints are not made to take that much mass.
     
  19. satty macrumors 6502

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    You can't beat Wellington on a good day
    #19
    I went through the same health test twice this year - in case someone is interested my BMI was 23.5 at the latest test - and while there are important health checks, i.e. HIV, TBC, liver diseases etc. which can't be cured and could lead to huge costs for a small country like NZ (only 4.5 million people), I personally think BMI or body weight in general is not in that category.

    The woman most likely does everything now to reduce her weight short term, even if it is unhealthy like dehydration to make it through the test. Later she might (or might not) gain the weight again. How did this help the NZ health system?

    Or why can't she come here with her husband first and has to proof in two years time when she - as is at the moment - automatically gains permanent residency have an acceptable BMI? The would be a clear, on healthy way achievable target.

    Looking around on the street here, the NZ born people are lucky, that they don't have to meet the similar requirements at a health test. A huge number would fail.
     
  20. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #20
    Just as an aside, the long term, post career health issues football players have due to the physical damage of playing football (especially to the hands/fingers, hips, knees, and ankles) far out weighs the "extra" weight they carry (or carried) around. All the playing and practicing wears out their bodies faster than their weight ever could.


    Lethal
     
  21. maestro55 macrumors 68030

    maestro55

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    #21
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/3B48b Safari/419.3)

    They have thief right to
    put in place any law that they want; however I won't be applying to live there anytime soon. I think there is a health factor but I also believe people have a choice if we choose to be healthy or not.
     
  22. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #22
    true but it does not mean country has to let you in and be a drain on their system. This is not letting some one move to NZ if they are unhealthy. It is only effect people wanting to move into the country.

    That or if you choose to live unhealthy the though is why should my tax dollars pay for keep some one alive who does not even try to stay healthy.
     
  23. wongulous macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 7, 2002
    #23
    I'm in awe that some responses are saying that bodybuilders, people with the strongest metabolism and healthiest muscle mass, bone mass, ligament and joint strength, and healthy blood pressure, cholesterol, cardiovascular health, etc, are unhealthy because of their BMI or some supposed stress on joints. Let me tell you: more Americans die because of heart disease, stroke, and lung cancer than from joint stress. Besides, it's been proven (as mentioned) that weight training enhances bone mass, bone strength, and joint health.

    And no, not everyone fat has a lot of muscle mass, but I know that having been quite overweight, I have an extremely strong lower body. I'm just saying that, like the adjustment for bone thickness/density, there needs to be an adjustment to BMI for muscle mass, and there really isn't. And the point is that BMI *IS* being used as an indicator of general health. This isn't joint insurance, it's HEALTH insurance.
     
  24. wonga1127 macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Because someone being obese cannot be sexually transmitted. Obesity cannot be communicated through air or bodily fluid. Nor can obesity be hidden from a potential mate.

    These people choose to be obese. Just shut the hell up and let them be. They know the danger, they just don't care. if they did, they would have done something.
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    I can leg press (full range) over 400 lbs and my BMI is 19. Just because you're skinny doesn't mean you're weak.
     

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