FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders as Firearm & Ammunition Sales Soar

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
Not what the Brady Campaign wanted us to hear! Good news from the FBI and for Second Amendment advocates and citizen safety...

FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders As Firearm, Ammunition And “Large” Magazine Sales Soar
Tuesday, December 29, 2009
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5268
Last week, the FBI issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008. If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low. Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI next year. According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high. For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense. The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.
 

bobber205

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2005
2,182
0
Oregon
Not what the Brady Campaign wanted us to hear! Good news from the FBI and for Second Amendment advocates and citizen safety...

FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders As Firearm, Ammunition And “Large” Magazine Sales Soar
Tuesday, December 29, 2009
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5268
Last week, the FBI issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008. If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low. Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI next year. According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high. For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense. The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.
Correlation is not the same as causality but I suppose this possible. Do you have a source for this that's not from a extremely biased source like the NRA?
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,056
6
Yahooville S.C.
Could be attributed to the economy and less disposable income therefor less $$$ for drinking and or drugs so people arent doing so many foolish thing while under the influence. Logical or not?
Also people are less likely to do some of this stuff knowing a law abiding citizen can protect themself against a non law abiding citizen. Constitution baby!
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
Correlation is not the same as causality but I suppose this possible. Do you have a source for this that's not from a extremely biased source like the NRA?
PR Newswire =>

Murder Down, Gun Sales Up; Proof That Guns Don't Cause Crime
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/murder-down-gun-sales-up-proof-that-guns-dont-cause-crime-saf-79852892.html
BELLEVUE, Wash., Dec. 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- A ten percent drop in murders during the first six months of this year at a time when gun sales were up dramatically is more proof that there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime...

Christian Science Monitor =>

More guns equal more crime? Not in 2009, FBI crime report shows.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1223/More-guns-equal-more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows.
Patrik Jonsson Staff writer / December 23, 2009
Atlanta FBI's latest crime report, for the first half of 2009, shows America is a less violent place even though ownership of guns has surged. Deterrent effect may have a role, but others see no correlation. The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.
 

bobber205

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2005
2,182
0
Oregon
I assume any rise in murders or violent crimes involving guns will never be tied to increased gun sales or gun sales at all? There's no way the NRA would do that.
 

synth3tik

macrumors 68040
Oct 11, 2006
3,955
2
Minneapolis, MN
I think if anything it's the price of ammo. I mean if it's going to cost you $2 per round you'll think twice about whether you hate someone enough to end them.

A 10% decrease in homicide and a 1.5-2% increase in firearm sales does not seem to really match up for me. The correlation is weak.

After all statistics are just an interesting manipulation of mathematics.
 

bobber205

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2005
2,182
0
Oregon
Its most likely a demographic effect. As the average age increases, expect such crimes to decrease. Maybe old people own more guns?
The people I know that own alot of guns are 40+.

Of course my previous statement as the first reply to this does apply to what I just said. :)
 

fivepoint

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2007
1,175
4
IOWA
Any way you look at it it's still a fact that people with guns kill people.
True. But also:

People with cars kill people.
People with tire irons kill people.
People with elephants kill people.
People with dogs kill people.
People with roman shades kill people.

The list could go on forever, what's your point?
 

Peace

macrumors Core
Apr 1, 2005
19,466
3,831
Space--The ONLY Frontier
True. But also:

People with cars kill people.
People with tire irons kill people.
People with elephants kill people.
People with dogs kill people.
People with roman shades kill people.

The list could go on forever, what's your point?
If you don't see the common sense of my statement you will never understand my point.

You are implying people with roman shades kill as many people as people with guns do. That's just plain silly.
 

fivepoint

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2007
1,175
4
IOWA
If you don't see the common sense of my statement you will never understand my point.

You are implying people with roman shades kill as many people as people with guns do. That's just plain silly.
Roman shades also save far fewer lives than guns do.

Cars kill many more people than guns do.
Alcohol kills many more people than guns do.

Ownership of guns is protected by the constitution.

Again... your point?
 

Thomas Veil

macrumors 68020
Feb 14, 2004
2,435
5,498
OBJECTIVE reality
Not what the Brady Campaign wanted us to hear! Good news from the FBI and for Second Amendment advocates and citizen safety...

FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders As Firearm, Ammunition And “Large” Magazine Sales Soar
Tuesday, December 29, 2009
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5268
Last week, the FBI issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008...
...yada, yada, yada....

Does anyone seriously think that robbers, gang members and people violently unhappy with their spouses, friends or co-workers are really sitting in their homes going, "Golly gee whiz, they're sellin' ammunition like there's no tomorrow! I'd better put my murder plans on hold"??

Gimme a break.

Oh, and before anyone else tries to draw cause-and-effect from this, here's a little oops.

Ownership of guns is protected by the constitution.
Just ask any well-regulated militia.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
Does anyone seriously think that robbers, gang members and people violently unhappy with their spouses, friends or co-workers are really sitting in their homes going, "Golly gee whiz, they're sellin' ammunition like there's no tomorrow! I'd better put my murder plans on hold"??
If you'd bother to do some research - and I suggest that the aforementioned FBI report is a good place to start - you'll discover the absurdity of your statement. As a matter of fact yes; as more firearms are held by citizens (huge increases in last few years of women gun owners and concealed handgun applications) then there is drastic reduction in violent crimes against citizens (muggings, rapes, personal assaults, etc.). The NRA website lists these statistics should you be interested. Conversely, a citizenry denied firearms becomes a target rich opportinity for criminals and crime.