FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders as Firearm & Ammunition Sales Soar

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IntheNet, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #1
    Not what the Brady Campaign wanted us to hear! Good news from the FBI and for Second Amendment advocates and citizen safety...

    FBI Reports Huge Decrease In Murders As Firearm, Ammunition And “Large” Magazine Sales Soar
    Tuesday, December 29, 2009
    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5268
    Last week, the FBI issued its preliminary 2009 crime report, showing that the number of murders in the first half of 2009 decreased 10 percent compared to the first half of 2008. If the trend holds for the remainder of 2009, it will be the single greatest one-year decrease in the number of murders since at least 1960, the earliest year for which national data are available through the Bureau of Justice Statistics. Also, the per capita murder rate for 2009 will be 51 percent lower than the all-time high recorded in 1991, and it will be the lowest rate since 1963—a 46-year low. Final figures for 2009 will be released by the FBI next year. According to gun control supporter dogma—“more guns means more crime”—the number of privately owned firearms must have decreased 10 percent in 2009. To the contrary, however, the number rose between 1.5 and 2 percent, to an all-time high. For the better part of the last 15 months, firearms, ammunition, and “large” ammunition magazines have been sold in what appear to be record quantities. And, the firearms that were most commonly purchased in 2009 are those that gun control supporters most want to be banned—AR-15s, similar semi-automatic rifles, and handguns designed for defense. The National Shooting Sports Foundation already estimates record ammunition sales in 2009, dominated by .223 Remington, 7.62x39mm, 9mm and other calibers widely favored for defensive purposes.
     
  2. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #2
    Correlation is not the same as causality but I suppose this possible. Do you have a source for this that's not from a extremely biased source like the NRA?
     
  3. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #3
    Well done Obama.
     
  4. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #4
    Could be attributed to the economy and less disposable income therefor less $$$ for drinking and or drugs so people arent doing so many foolish thing while under the influence. Logical or not?
    Also people are less likely to do some of this stuff knowing a law abiding citizen can protect themself against a non law abiding citizen. Constitution baby!
     
  5. IntheNet thread starter macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #5
    PR Newswire =>

    Murder Down, Gun Sales Up; Proof That Guns Don't Cause Crime
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-that-guns-dont-cause-crime-saf-79852892.html
    BELLEVUE, Wash., Dec. 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- A ten percent drop in murders during the first six months of this year at a time when gun sales were up dramatically is more proof that there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime...

    Christian Science Monitor =>

    More guns equal more crime? Not in 2009, FBI crime report shows.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Societ...more-crime-Not-in-2009-FBI-crime-report-shows.
    Patrik Jonsson Staff writer / December 23, 2009
    Atlanta FBI's latest crime report, for the first half of 2009, shows America is a less violent place even though ownership of guns has surged. Deterrent effect may have a role, but others see no correlation. The oft-cited credo that more guns equal more crime is being tested by facts on the ground this year: Even as gun ownership has surged in the US in the past year, violent crime, including murder and robbery, has dropped steeply.
     
  6. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #6
    Oh I see what you did there.
     
  7. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #7
    I assume any rise in murders or violent crimes involving guns will never be tied to increased gun sales or gun sales at all? There's no way the NRA would do that.
     
  8. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

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    #8
    I think if anything it's the price of ammo. I mean if it's going to cost you $2 per round you'll think twice about whether you hate someone enough to end them.

    A 10% decrease in homicide and a 1.5-2% increase in firearm sales does not seem to really match up for me. The correlation is weak.

    After all statistics are just an interesting manipulation of mathematics.
     
  9. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #9
    The decrease is due to the fact that police shoot to kill now. No matter the crime they tend to just kill them.
     
  10. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

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    #10
    If that isn't the truth. So far it looks like where I live police shootings make up about 30% of the homicides for the year.
     
  11. djellison macrumors 68020

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    #11
    Do not expect the OP to concede, understand, comprehend, process or in anyway acknowledge or appropriately address this key issue.
     
  12. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #12
    Its most likely a demographic effect. As the average age increases, expect such crimes to decrease. Maybe old people own more guns?
     
  13. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #13
    The people I know that own alot of guns are 40+.

    Of course my previous statement as the first reply to this does apply to what I just said. :)
     
  14. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #14
    A 100% reduction in homicide is only a 15% increase in gun sales away!
     
  15. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #15
    I think this is a good way to illustrate the problem around these numbers.
     
  16. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #16
    Any way you look at it it's still a fact that people with guns kill people.
     
  17. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #17
    True. But also:

    People with cars kill people.
    People with tire irons kill people.
    People with elephants kill people.
    People with dogs kill people.
    People with roman shades kill people.

    The list could go on forever, what's your point?
     
  18. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #18
    If you don't see the common sense of my statement you will never understand my point.

    You are implying people with roman shades kill as many people as people with guns do. That's just plain silly.
     
  19. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #19
    Roman shades also save far fewer lives than guns do.

    Cars kill many more people than guns do.
    Alcohol kills many more people than guns do.

    Ownership of guns is protected by the constitution.

    Again... your point?
     
  20. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #20
    My point ?

    Ban the bullet.
     
  21. IntheNet thread starter macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #21
    So, based on the good news from these FBI reports, you are in favor of more crime and more murders?
     
  22. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #22
    Sure.Why not!!
    :rolleyes:
     
  23. Cave Man macrumors 604

    Cave Man

    #23
    The US debt has continued to increase since the early 1990s. So has the incidence of autism. Clearly, austim is responsible for the debt. Or maybe it's the other way around.
     
  24. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #24
    ...yada, yada, yada....

    Does anyone seriously think that robbers, gang members and people violently unhappy with their spouses, friends or co-workers are really sitting in their homes going, "Golly gee whiz, they're sellin' ammunition like there's no tomorrow! I'd better put my murder plans on hold"??

    Gimme a break.

    Oh, and before anyone else tries to draw cause-and-effect from this, here's a little oops.

    Just ask any well-regulated militia.
     
  25. IntheNet thread starter macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #25
    If you'd bother to do some research - and I suggest that the aforementioned FBI report is a good place to start - you'll discover the absurdity of your statement. As a matter of fact yes; as more firearms are held by citizens (huge increases in last few years of women gun owners and concealed handgun applications) then there is drastic reduction in violent crimes against citizens (muggings, rapes, personal assaults, etc.). The NRA website lists these statistics should you be interested. Conversely, a citizenry denied firearms becomes a target rich opportinity for criminals and crime.
     

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