Firewire 2 (1394b)

arn

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While widely suspected, Firewire 2 ports were indeed designed/evaluated for the most recent PowerMac design that was released in August. This is based on an Apple design PDF which was unintentionally exposed on Apple's servers. The PDF was quickly removed.

1394b (or Firewire 2) was approved this year in March, however, due to the lag time before finalization it was not expected until late summer at the earliest.

For whatever reasons, Firewire 2 did not make its way into the most recent revisions. This, however, does seem to indicate that Firewire 2 will be coming soon.
 

arn

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Please do not post the PDF in question.
 

G4scott

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Jan 9, 2002
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Hmm... Maybe Apple's waiting to put Firewire 2 in their computers until they release their next generation Mac... (I'm not going to call it a G5 until I'm sure :p )
 

whfsdude

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Jan 20, 2002
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hehe, quick someone send me the PDF and it will be all over Carracho :D

Well it's about time for FW 2 :) I wonder what Apple will use it for, its faster than your hd can spin so.
 

rice_web

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Oct 25, 2001
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Well, it's good to see that it is coming along. Perhaps the announcement of the G5 isn't as impressive as everyone is hoping, so they want FireWire2 to be announced along with the G5 (or at least a new G4 with full DDR implementation).

Maybe processor clock speeds won't be seeing much of an increase for some time...
 

zed

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Feb 4, 2002
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anyone can feel free to send that pdf on over to
[removed]

if ya feel like it :cool:

[admin edit: just don't want this thread to become a "send to this email address" thread... sorry]
 

whfsdude

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Jan 20, 2002
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Originally posted by zed
anyone can feel free to send that pdf on over to
[admin edit: just don't want this thread to become a "send to this email address" thread... sorry]


if ya feel like it :cool:
lol you wake up and find a mailbox full of apple legal letters lol ;)
 

exbox

macrumors member
the pdf really does not show much. In the pdf, there is only one picture labled 1394b. The rest of the pdf is composed of design and circutry diagrams from various places in the powermac. All this pdf proves is that 1394b exists, and Apple has designs or working units of prototype powermacs with 1394b.
 

King Cobra

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Mar 2, 2002
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>(rice_web) Perhaps the announcement of the G5 isn't as impressive as everyone is hoping, so they want FireWire2 to be announced along with the G5 (or at least a new G4 with full DDR implementation).

I will go even further than that. Remember when the PowerMac G3 B&W cam out with Firewire? That was Jan. 1999. The iMac adopted Firewire in October. I'm thinking that the PowerMac (assuming it's a G5 we see in Jan.) will get a Firewire upgrade, followed by the iMac in late 2003 or early 2004.
 

nickmcghie

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Jul 16, 2002
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Originally posted by King Cobra
I will go even further than that. Remember when the PowerMac G3 B&W cam out with Firewire? That was Jan. 1999. The iMac adopted Firewire in October. I'm thinking that the PowerMac (assuming it's a G5 we see in Jan.) will get a Firewire upgrade, followed by the iMac in late 2003 or early 2004. [/B]

I'm not so sure Apple will wait so long to introduce 1394b in the iMac after its in the PowerMac. Remember, in 1999, FireWire was a relatively new technology with not very many products.. thus, they first introduced it into their professional machines to get it out the door so people would start developing for it. Also, FireWire was a lot more expensive to put into machines that it is now.

Now, more than 3 years later, FireWire is big and growing rapidly in popularity. Apple realizes this, and, to keep the FireWire momentum going, they will release 1394b in their entire line-up as soon as its feasible for them to do so.
 

Vector

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Feb 13, 2002
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Is that one of the pdf files that i mentioned in the thread i posted yesterday? There were several on the private server and they are no longer there.
 

arn

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Originally posted by Vector
Is that one of the pdf files that i mentioned in the thread i posted yesterday? There were several on the private server and they are no longer there.
yep...

arn
 

oldMac

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2001
522
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Firewire 2 heat!

Heh, heh...

Maybe Apple got a little closer than they intended to the "firewire" name and that explains all that cooling power in the new G4s. :)
 

Vector

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Feb 13, 2002
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Originally posted by arn


yep...

arn
Did apple send you something or did you just take down the attachments that others put up preemptively? I kind of wish i had not posted that thread yesterday, maybe they would not have noticed that they had been leaving alot of interesting documents on a public site.
 

arn

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Originally posted by Vector

Did apple send you something or did you just take down the attachments that others put up preemptively? I kind of wish i had not posted that thread yesterday, maybe they would not have noticed that they had been leaving alot of interesting documents on a public site.
it was preemptive.

arn
 

yankeedoodle

macrumors newbie
Jul 17, 2002
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FireWire II in XServe RAID first?

Just my 2 cents:

Since Apple is expected to come up with the XServe RAID unit (already pre-announced by master Seve himself) really soon that is said to deliver mind-blowing data throughput rates, I could imagine that Apple is going to premiere FireWire II in this device first -- probably along with a FireWire II PCI card that fits into the XServe main unit or with an updated XServe (dual 1.25 GHz) unit.

Whaddoyathink?
 

tjwett

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May 6, 2002
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this is a perfect example of Apple hiding technology and getting blood from a stone. the "stone" being us. the whole drip method of releasing technology blows. i know it's not just Apple but it still sucks.
 

Vector

macrumors 6502a
Feb 13, 2002
835
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Re: FireWire II in XServe RAID first?

Originally posted by yankeedoodle
Just my 2 cents:

Since Apple is expected to come up with the XServe RAID unit (already pre-announced by master Seve himself) really soon that is said to deliver mind-blowing data throughput rates, I could imagine that Apple is going to premiere FireWire II in this device first -- probably along with a FireWire II PCI card that fits into the XServe main unit or with an updated XServe (dual 1.25 GHz) unit.

Whaddoyathink?
I thought steve said something about using fibre channel connections in that when he first announced it and the xserve. Fibre channel would be sending 2gigs and not 800 megabytes like firewire 2.
 

arn

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Originally posted by tjwett
this is a perfect example of Apple hiding technology and getting blood from a stone. the "stone" being us. the whole drip method of releasing technology blows. i know it's not just Apple but it still sucks.
Um.... no - it simply means it wasn't ready for reasons that you and I don't know.

arn
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Originally posted by arn
Please do not post the PDF in question.
While it would NOT be appropriate to post the document here and involve MacRumours, perhaps posting it to a private site and emailing it to anyone who emails the poster might work?

Or simply post any truly relevent summary, like tech specs and feedback on negative issues to indicate how far we are from prime time.

Most people beyond idle curiosity mainly want to know a preview of comong attractions, possibly including the plug style too.

Rocketman
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Originally posted by arn


it was preemptive.

arn
Wise.

We want Apple happy with you so you DO get occasional blessed leaks.

One reason for Firewire2 is a Tivo like connection and an interface for devices with optical (fiber optic) connections. Also solid state drives are still faster than even woderful hard discs and I would not be surprised with the lowering cost of memory to see a return to solid state drives. I used to have a solid state drive on my Mac+ and programs in ramdisc (only 4mb) and that thing was faster than any other conventional Mac I used till the Power PC came out.

I can only imagine what a Jagwire DP G4 machine would do with everything in ramdisc and saving processing results to a solid state drive. It would be bandwidth limited, not drive speed limited.

Rocketman
 

yankeedoodle

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Jul 17, 2002
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Re: Re: FireWire II in XServe RAID first?

Originally posted by Vector


I thought steve said something about using fibre channel connections in that when he first announced it and the xserve. Fibre channel would be sending 2gigs and not 800 megabytes like firewire 2.
FW2 specifications include optical links via fibre channel... And FW2 doesn't necessarily have to be limited to 800 mbps; it could aswell run at higher bandwiths (1200? 1600? 2000?). So could it be that his Steveness is bringing us FW2 a bit late but in a really sophisticated form (2 Gigabit) and with fibre channel possibilities in form of the Xserve/RAID this fall?
:confused:
 

Carl Norum

macrumors newbie
Aug 30, 2002
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Originally posted by yankeedoodle
FW2 specifications include optical links via fibre channel... And FW2 doesn't necessarily have to be limited to 800 mbps; it could aswell run at higher bandwiths (1200? 1600? 2000?).
The spec is public... 1394b tops out at 3.2 Gb/s. Just like FireWire has S100, S200, and S400 speeds, FW2 has 800 Mb/s, 1600 Mb/s and 3200 Mb/s speeds.
 

arn

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Originally posted by Rocketman

Or simply post any truly relevent summary, like tech specs and feedback on negative issues to indicate how far we are from prime time.

Most people beyond idle curiosity mainly want to know a preview of comong attractions, possibly including the plug style too.
There is nothing of interest in the PDF to end users except that there was a Firewire 2 connector pinout in it.

arn
 

King Cobra

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Mar 2, 2002
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>(nickmcghie) I'm not so sure Apple will wait so long to introduce 1394b in the iMac after its in the PowerMac....Also, FireWire was a lot more expensive to put into machines that it is now.

True. But I also do not see many products advertised for sale using the 1394b hardware port.

>Now, more than 3 years later, FireWire is big and growing rapidly in popularity. Apple realizes this, and, to keep the FireWire momentum going, they will release 1394b in their entire line-up as soon as its feasible for them to do so.

That's also true. But Apple usually does this with their products if they feel such a hardware port/addition/whatver is necessary. (That's why you don't see the slower USB 2.0 on Macs, although it's been out for a while on consumer products, such as CD-RWs.) Also, to fit a combo drive into the Powerbook Apple had to wait for appropriate technology/lower prices before it could be added on to the Powerbook, a month after the Rev. B. DVD model came out.