Firing LGBTQ or pregnant & unmarried workers

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #1
    "The Department of Labor just proposed a rule that aims to let government contractors fire workers who are LGBTQ, or who are pregnant and unmarried, based on the employers’ religious views."

    https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1161655208256184320

    What do you think?
     
  2. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #2
    At first I was against it, but reading into it it is based on religious views, so now I'm mixed. It is for government contractors who are private companies.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
  4. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #4
  5. Mousse macrumors 68020

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #5
    If they work for the Gub'ment, they should abide by the separation of Church and State ideal. Firing an employee because the boss' religious belief runs counter to their lifestyle/circumstances? That ain't right. Firing a competent construction worker just because he's gay? Hail no, that ain't right. Firing him because he's spending all his time at work staring at his co-worker's plumber's crack. That, I'm okay firing a guy for goldbricking.
     
  6. Khalanad75 macrumors 6502

    Khalanad75

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Location:
    land of confusion
    #6
    How is that not against discrimination laws?

    Isn't it discrimination based on religion?
     
  7. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #7
    Its not government, but contractors. In another note, I don't see how they will get away with firing single mothers. Not sure if that is covered in federal law.
     
  8. Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #8
    So? The Federal Gov can say this kind of discrimination is unacceptable for gov contracts, or we can currently have ass hats in Gov pandering to the religious. This is frick’n 100 steps backwards. :mad: Oh yes, if you don’t follow the rules of my religion I can punish you in the workplace. That is so ****ed up in a Nation that states religious freedom is a cornerstone of its foundation. If I need to connect the dots, it means freedom from religion.
     
  9. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #9
    I hope this extends to atheists who don't want Christians working for them. Let's be honest, all this country's government cares about are Christians and only Jews who live in Isreal.
     
  10. 556fmjoe macrumors 68000

    556fmjoe

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    #10
    That is not what the proposal states.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/14/trump-rule-contractors-lgbt-discrimination-1661311

    (emphasis mine)

    For those interested, here is the actual proposal: https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...equal-opportunity-clauses-religious-exemption
     
  11. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #11
    As I told you I'm mixed on this so I can see possible violations with federal law.

    But I also respect some employers decision regarding religious freedom, such as the bakers cake incident which I support.
     
  12. Huntn, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019

    Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #12
    See, I would disagree with that. Your religion or lack of religion is your personal business, or it resides within your church. Once you step out into the markets place, we don’t want to be punishing people or holding them accountable to your personal religious rules. The only exception I can think of would be employees for a church, in the church. Not employees at a Chick Fila for example because the owners want you pressed down under their Christian thumbs.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 14, 2019 ---
    I agree the baker making specialized cakes for weddings is a more complicated situation. But the bottom line is Freedom of Religion includes Freedom From Religion without repercussions in the workplace.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 14, 2019 ---
    I think I agree, except that looking at other people and appraising them on a spectrum of qualities is a universal quality. ;)
     
  13. statik13 macrumors regular

    statik13

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    #13
    Pretty nasty. Why is it when you think the government can't stoop any lower they somehow find a way? Next thing you know they will start having "straight & married only" water fountains. (yes, yes.. I'm exaggerating.. but probably not by much)
     
  14. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #14
    I think it would be lower for the government to decide who cannot be fired because of religion (for private parties) hence infringing a separation.
    This obviously applies to atheists wanting to fire religious individuals.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 14, 2019 ---
    I hope so. I would oppose it if it didn’t give the same right to atheists.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 14, 2019 ---
    Why? Freedom to create a company and freedom to have whoever you want is a pivotal right. You should be able to associate with whoever you want for the reasons you want.
     
  15. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    #15
    My question is what potential employer is saying "I'd hire you except you are gay, so no." or in recent years "I'm looking at what I believe to be one thing and you are telling me I'm wrong. God does not allow such bait and switch employment opportunities"?
     
  16. MacAndMic macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    #16
    If I am reading it correctly and in a nutshell, it makes it impossible for the government to disqualify a business from bidding or securing government contracts because of social law, not real law.
     
  17. Huntn, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019

    Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #17
    You my friend have missed the point. First of all there is no such thing as complete freedom, unless you live in unclaimed jurisdiction and even then you might find yourself under the control of the local warlord. It’s not about complete freedom, it’s not about your choice in religion, or your non-religion, it’s not about who you choose to associate with or invite into your home.

    It is all about prejudice in public, the town square and the workplace. We as a society on a Federal Level decide what type of laws that should be standardized across the Nation, and one of those is the destructive nature of prejudice in the public space and workplace, as applied to religion, gender, ethnicity, and we recently added or are in the process of including sexual orientation and gender identity BECAUSE to allow this kind of prejudice to exist, is the denial of the basic civil right to live your life without being oppressed, harassed, or denied services, or a job, based on the categories mentioned. Note, all of the sodomy laws have been repealed. Sit In The Back Of The Bus, and punishing people because they love (the wrong gender) or identify as the wrong gender, is no longer acceptable.

    The move to legitimize prejudice against LGBT at the Federal level, based on religion is heinous and its consideration would be this Administration’s attempt to haul us back to the past, to appease a constituency, a small group of religious zealots who can’t even read a Bible and understand Jesus’s message, who have corrupted the meaning of Freedom Of Religion, and unbelievably support a lying, immoral, wolf in sheep’s clothing*, sociopath, who needs their support to stay in power, because that will somehow get them into heaven.

    * This term applies to Trump’s professed Christianity, a complete joke to anyone with half a brain, or have not corrupted their religion, to think that he is God’s Tool to bring them a defacto Christian Theocracy. It boggles the minds of independent thinkers who observe the self serving desire of Christians who feel it is their duty to punish their heretics.
     
  18. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #18
    The workplace is not public. The workplace is an individual, or a group of individuals, that get together and form a company. Then, they hire people to work within their creation to reach some common goal.

    And we as a society can criticize laws so that they can change, right?
     
  19. Huntn macrumors demi-god

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #19
    They are separate, but both areas are covered by Federal anti-discrimination laws. Yes, we can criticize, and the majority decide what is appropriate.

    If you look this history, it began with religious rights, then gender rights, then ethnic rights, and now sexual orientation rights. This is a natural progression based on a move away from hypocrisy, if you want to hold up a country based on freedom, and towards a truly superior nature for us as a species.

    Reinforcing my outlook, I’m currently reading The Hand Maid’s Tale which is a completely bleak story based on the eradication of gender rights pushed by corrupt religion.
     
  20. yaxomoxay, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #20
    Majority of Congress, not majority of people, but yeah I agree with the above.

    Yes, we always have to be careful with slippery slopes. For this reason we always need to keep our eyes open, with both laws that we agree and we disagree with. That's why I also support atheists' freedom to fire Catholics like me, for example (fire from a private company).

    I watched some of the TV series, it's clearly well made but it didn't capture me. I believe that it's simply because I am not in the mood for much dystopian stuff at the moment. The theme itself is incredibly interesting. I will give it another try in the future. I think you will like it, after you read the book.


    EDIT: @Huntn read this hilarious true story: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ed-umbrella-she-mistook-for-suicidal-liberal/
     
  21. laptech macrumors 6502

    laptech

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Location:
    Earth
    #21
    What i find interesting is the difference in protected rights between the US and UK when it comes to freedom of religion and discrimination.

    Both countries recently had a case where a cake maker refused to service a member of the LGBT community. In the US, the cake makers religious freedom was upheld but in the UK, whilst i believe the case is still going through the appeals process, the cake maker was found guilty of discrimination laws. I believe a supreme court judge said that discrimination laws trump that of freedom of religion laws.

    In the US, is a persons freedom of religion a protected 1st amendment right hence why it will trump discrimination laws? or have i got it wrong?
     
  22. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #22
    Very well could be. In the U.S. we have freedom of religion written into the Constitution. I'm not sure how it is written into any founding documents in the U.K. So in the U.S. an anti-discrimination law might eventually be ruled unconstitutional.
     
  23. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #23
    Is the UK case similar to the US one? Was it about a custom cake?
     
  24. linuxcooldude macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    #24
    Not always. For instance, transgender bathroom policy put in place by Obama only applied to federal buildings/schools and not private businesses.
     
  25. AppleHaterLover macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2018
    #25
    In other areas of the world firing someone based on "religious views" is a million $ lawsuit waiting to happen.

    Hell in some places you are literally NOT ALLOWED to fire a pregnant employee.
     

Share This Page

83 August 14, 2019