First of new Senate votes went down 57-43

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by LizKat, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #1
    Well that was pretty clear....

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/us/politics/senate-votes-repeal-obamacare.html

    The Senate on Tuesday night voted against a version of the Republican health care overhaul plan, called the Better Care Reconciliation Act. The procedural vote was technically on whether the amendment complies with the budget act, but practically means that the BCRA can't become law without being substantially rewritten.

    This week senators will debate and vote on several more amendments to a bill to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.

    A vote on a final bill is expected later this week. We are tracking these votes live as they happen.


    WellThatWentWell.jpg
     
  2. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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  3. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #3
    Well it is better care. It takes care of the rich better.
     
  4. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #4
    for sure and we all know thats all trump cares about.
     
  5. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #5
    They lost 9 republican votes on that first foray into "Let's try this differently" gig.

    So it was just a technical vote to try to get past the parliamentarian but still... nine Republicans said Nope, you need 60 to pass this thing, not 51. So they apparently buy that it's going to be a policy switch not a budget tweak. Which means they're back to making amendments and trying to balance those out until 60 senators buy it and THEN it goes back to House and good luck to Ryan trying to pass whatever it looks like by then.

    Which to me means they won't make it, Boehner is still correct, it wil take bipartisan work at some point. But will the GOP reach across the aisle in this term?
     
  6. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Some republican was probably trying to ride the coat tails of The Better Deal.
     
  7. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #7
    Thanks for that link, interesting read. As far as the naming of bills and campaign themes: for bills, acronyms are past tiresome already, I prefer they just give some generic descriptor and the bill number and a link to the government legislation tracker; we get to see what it is and where it is at the moment in the legislative process.

    For campaign themes, gee. Words mean something but not any more when you're being pitched to, which is most of the time since the 1950s. "All natural!" = "better deal"... I don't care what the Dems call the 2018-2020 effort. How about This Time We Really Mean It and the GOP could run with No Seriously We Can Get This Done. Let's hear the policy pitches and see analyses of their proposed spending and revenue streams, and then let's vote for whatever seems like the better deal from our own points of view.
     
  8. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #8
    I personally am glad for this.

    Liberals/Democrats/Progressives now have the opportunity to prove to the world that the Affordable Care Act is sustainable.
     
  9. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #9
    I dunno. This thing is like a microcosm of the 2016 election on the divisiveness scale. This should be a regular order (bipartisan) effort since it's the equivalent of a national health care system we do not really have and really should have.

    But it's being done the same way the Democrats ended up having to do ACA to begin with since the Republicans then would not support the thing they tried to poison from the get-go. Now it's the Republicans trying to kill it all by themselves, with the twist that the Dems are saying hey if you change your mind and want to get real about this after 8 years of fakery, let us know and we'll help you out of a jam you're otherwise in here on your own.

    And no one is listening because first the GOP has to hit rock bottom on showing they don't care about health care as an essential piece of Americans looking out for Americans' interests. This is the same as paying for military defense, only closer to home. Even Trump does get that although he doesn't care to know anything about the details. Why doesn't his party get it?
     
  10. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #10
    republicans now have the chance to prove they don't only care about the rich. bring it on.
     
  11. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #11
    I guess George Will thinks Congress is proving it's not even up to that task since it's flailing at just about everything set before it so far this term

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449830/congress-budget-health-care-vote-dysfunction

    Neither the House nor the Senate has passed the fiscal 2018 budget resolution that the Budget Act of 1974 stipulates should have been acted on by April 15. Neither chamber has passed any of the 12 appropriations bills that are supposed to be passed by the October 1 beginning of the fiscal year. On-time passage of the appropriations bills has not happened since 1996. Continuing resolutions involving “hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of spending” that annoyed Reagan three decades ago have become continuing resolutions involving more than a trillion — not counting the two-thirds of government spending (e.g., entitlements, debt service) that happens without congressional involvement. As Arkin’s analysis was appearing, the Social Security and Medicare trustees projected the former’s insolvency in 2034 and the latter’s in 2029.
    ---
    Tuesday afternoon, the irascible John McCain made a plea in the Senate for that body to return to “regular order.” This was a response to the institutional slovenliness that exasperated an amiable president three decades ago. Congress’s continuing self-degradation is writ large in a process that brought us to Tuesday morning, when most Republican senators knew only this: They would vote to begin consideration of a bill that they might have to pass in order to find out what is in it.

     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    Democrats had 7 years to prove out the ACA model, it got substantially worse over time and is now on the brink of collapse.
     
  13. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #13
    What are you basing that assertion on?

    Seriously: Instead of parroting Republican talking points about "collapse" and such, what metric are you using for your assertion? That decent health insurance in the US is not cheap? Fine. You'll get no argument from me on that score.

    But rather than repeating, ad nauseum, Republican talking points, tell us - in very clear terms - what you would propose to do better.

    The baseline is this: Imperfect though it may well be, the ACA cut the number of Americans without health insurance by almost half. Millions more Americans can get access to health insurance knowing that they will not be subject to lifetime caps, or be priced out of the insurance market if - heaven forbid - they actually get sick.

    Tell us which of the horror shows currently being debated in the Senate is going to improve on that.
     
  14. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #14
    And their plan worked all along. They knew it would fail. They lucked out that it's going to on the GOP watch. As you can see already everyone will blame the GOP. Healthcare is now a federally mandated function of government now. Government healthcare is not going to go anywhere because governments never willingly give power back to their people.
     
  15. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #15
    Then rename it the Healthcare for all Act because clearly the Affordable part isn't being felt by the vast majority of Americans. Didn't Obama run around claiming the "average american family" will see their healthcare premiums drop $2500? WTF is his definition of the "average american family".
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    Costs to people not riding on the dole and the fact that coops and companies have collapsed out of the ACA system.
     
  17. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #17
    Let us give credit where credit is due: The ACA is modelled after RomneyCare, which republicans loved because it prevented people from free-loading medical care by not getting insurance. The ACA, at its core, is a GOP creation that reflected GOP core values of not giving 'free stuff' away.

    I always thought the ACA was a half-arsed solution. The obvious solution is to abandon it and provide a public health service. I bet some states will begin to consider this if the GOP federal government keeps winding itself into a Gordian knot.
     
  18. Rhonindk, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017

    Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

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    #18
    Or vice versa? Dem's are being obstructionists at the moment.
    I'm not seeing any reaching from either side. Just versions of "my way".

    What is it going to take to get all to sit down and design a real solution.

    So tired of Schumer's rhetoric. I had to put Harris and Feinstein emails in my junk folder.
    And the GOP ... ugh. :confused:
     
  19. noekozz macrumors 6502a

    noekozz

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    #19
    There's no excuse for crying wolf for 7 1/2 years on repeal and replace, and now the time comes and it all ends in a dud. Further proof that it's all in the name of something, without having a replacement or anything of substance to counter. You would think that by lowering the voting threshold to 51 (we have yet to see the ramifications of this further down the road), in part because of this health bill, they would be able to get at least something going, but nope.
     
  20. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #20
    Let's not forget the genesis of these Senate bills. Not regular order. Drafted in a room by 13 guys. Even with its assorted "versions" it has not gone through normal markup, no televised committee hearings with comment from both sides of the aisle there.

    The phase it's in now did not start with a reversion to regular order either. It's a continuation of the "pass-my-13guy-bill that is not quite as bad as the House original bill".

    The Senate didn't even know until shortly before the first procedural vote what version they'd be taking their earlier vote on yesterda to open debate, i.e. House bill, first Senate version, second Senate version with Cruz amendment, the clean repeal they finally went with which as we all know is a nonstarter and took a tiebreaker just to get it to the floor as the dummy template to start the amendment process rolling. So it was a way to "reboot" current process that failed before at point of the 2nd version w/ Cruz amendment, and in this reboot they are still not doing regular order with markups in committee hearings.

    As of now all they've settled is last night's eye rolling acknowledgment that just as the parliamentarian proposed, it is not a budget reconciliation and so will require 60 votes to pass. Ryan must be banging his head on the wall because,,, he's not done with the thing after all, assuming the Senate passes "something".

    As McCain said when they get done with this... thing... and if they still have not come to some version that can get 60 votes, then how about considering a regular order approach. At that point Democrats could contribute. If they finally passed a bill there with 60 votes, it would go back to Ryan to see if he could get it past his own far right in the House with Democratic members' assistance.

    Would be interesting to see what the House Dems made of it. Pelosi cold have her work cut out for her, maybe. Depends on what the Senate managed to pass, with GOP still half-suicidally trying to keep the ACA poisoned and unsustainable. In other words I would not be especially trusting of the GOP's probable, eventual invitation to Dems to help pass a bill. They could decide ok, back to the playbook of our Obama experience, try to make something the Dems won't even pass, and if they do pass it, the ACA staggers out of the room half-dying anyway.

    Sorry my partisan bias is showing. I think it's probably justified thanks to McConnell's vow to kill the ACA from inception. From before inception, actually.
     
  21. Rhonindk, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017

    Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

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    #21
    Until they (Congress) get off their keisters and address this, we, the public, are the benefactors of their failure.

    I have a friend who is an MD and she is more concerned with the fallout. The ACA has been hard on her practice.
     
  22. LizKat thread starter macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #22
    yeah well they blew past that one last night in the Senate since they couldn't get past the procedural call on whether what they had voted to open debate on was in fact a budget reconcilation bill requiring only 51 votes or involved policy changes that would require 60 to pass. They could only get 43 votes agreeing that it was a reconcilation. Nine of the GOP's own saw it as other than just a reconciliation measure.

    So it was deemed an independent measure by a 57-43 call, and whatever they hang onto it in the way of amendments would appear to need 60 votes to pass. Unless somehow they can go again and convince the parliamentarian on some other tweak (in the Senate, of the House bill that was passed) that netting out some budget numbers between taxes and subsidies is not a policy adjustment. Good luck with that, it's more or less what they already tried to do with the clean repeal attempt and fetched up against too many Nay votes including from their own party.

    Duh, sweet yesterday when tie break was the achievable goal. Now they are looking at having to round up Democrats in the Senate to pass a bill and then ship it to the House to reconcile. This without having done markups in committee so there's no Dem input to the Senate bill to begin with..
     

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