FL License plates to promote Christianity?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by atszyman, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #1
    link

    [​IMG]

    Thoughts? concerns?

    I don't think this should manage to pass the legislature, much less judicial review. If they had opened it up for anyone to put whatever religious symbols or at least had a path for any religion to submit a design, get approval and have their own license plates in a relatively short timeframe without having to go through the legislature again, maybe. But to only represent one religion would have the state favoring that religion over others which would appear to be a direct violation of the constitution.
     
  2. djellison macrumors 68020

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    #2
    Looks like a big fat breach of seperating church and state. Licence plates should be plain, simple, standardised.

    Surely if people wanted to customize their plates - they could buy a licence plate holder? I'm not sure of the law regarding plates in the US - but someone asked if I could do a licence plate holder of the logo for the forum I run and I had no idea what they meant.

    Here in the Uk they are very strict. The font, colour, size is explicitly described and they ALL look the same (or should - some idiots try to use a different font, or the bolts that keep it on the car to try and get it to say something else)
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Why not just let Florida secede from the Union? I'm sick of these right wing religious nuts. Let them start their own country and the rest of us can move forward. Florida does nothing but use our tax dollars for hurricane relief anyway. Sorry if I sound nasty, but I'm sick of this crap. :mad:
     
  4. atszyman thread starter macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #4
    License plate holders are starting to get more regulated in the U.S. Some were getting a bit out of hand and starting to obscure information on the license plates but (at least in TX) there is a restriction that you cannot obscure any part of the state name on the plate or you could be subject to a $500 (IIRC) fine.

    I don't see the need for special plates anyway. It's the U.S. and it unpatriotic to drive anything but the biggest SUVs so there's plenty of room for your bumper stickers and Ichthys.

    I can see emergency personnel (fire fighters, cops, storm watchers) having custom plates so they are easily recognizable if there are times when you might have to exceed the speed limit or park illegally to do part of your job, but beyond that there's no reason to not standardize the plates.
     
  5. aLoC macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    It's not forcing people to follow a specific religion, so it's not too serious in that respect. But on the other hand it does rather look like advertising, which I don't think the government should be doing with respect to religion.

    Separation of church and state has served us well for so long, let's not play games with it.
     
  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #6
    Lee, you read my mind, I was about to post the exact same thing :D

    They screwed up presidential voting in 2000 and 2008. It's obvious they are unable to participate in democracy, thus, they should be kicked out of the union.

    In Missouri, I saw a vanity plate that said JC LVSU (jesus christ loves you). Apparently, no one at the DMV had a problem with it. Now, I'm sure if I tried to get JC H8SU or IH8 JC, there'd be a huge stink and I wouldn't be able to get the plate (and if vanity plates weren't such a ripoff here, I'd try to get one of those).
     
  7. atszyman thread starter macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #7
    It was just a big Jackie Chan fan, sayin' Jackie Chan I Loves you!

    I don't have a problem with vanity plates advertising religion as long as it's open to everyone. The state making one particular religious symbol on the plates themselves without a path for any other religion to participate is wrong.
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    Lot of good ideas here.

    No reason they should be excluded that I can see.

    As stated, you pay plenty for the vanity plate anyway.
     
  9. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #9
    Who cares ??

    They arent forcing them on people, and they arent forcing religion on people either.

    Besides, the phrase "separation of church and state" is merely a phrase from the personal correspondence of Thomas Jefferson. It is not mentioned anywhere in the U.S. Constitution. The specific wording of the first amendment that prohibits the establishment of state sponsored religion reads:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…"


    However, I do feel that if FL is allowing one group of people to express themselves in this manner, they should give the oppurtunity to other groups to do so.
     
  10. dsnort macrumors 68000

    dsnort

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    Life is too short to get this worked up over the stupidity our elected officials "consider". Personally, I barely have time to get outraged over the stupidity they actually enact.
     
  11. Teh Don Ditty macrumors G4

    Teh Don Ditty

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    Lee, thank you. You summed up what I was feeling quite well.

    I am totally against this idea. Forgetting about church and state and all that jazz, from strictly a personal view I don't wanna look at it. It's bad enough I have to see bumper stickers about religion but a license plate? A State sanctioned license plate? Nah. Not feeling that at all.

    How about we use the money for something else?
     
  12. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #12
    as long as all the other religions are represented as well, then this can go through. allowing only one religion is what annoys me, as they shouldn't get special service
     
  13. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #13
    That would be fine. Treat them all equally.
    So how long before someone tries to get a Jedi plate?
     
  14. dsnort macrumors 68000

    dsnort

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    #14
    What would you put on an Atheist plate? Nothing?
     
  15. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #15
    How about a Flying Spaghetti Monster plate? That's one vanity plate I'd be willing to pay extra money for.
     
  16. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #16
    Perhaps they don't need to prove anything?
     
  17. elcid macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Indiana have optional plates that say "In God We Trust". I really don't see a problem. If you like them get one. If you don't, don't.

    http://www.geocities.com/nomad85013/IGWTplate.jpg


    Oh, and politicians aren't going to ban vanity plates with religious meanings. They like their jobs. And allowing a citizen to have a personal belief encoded on their license plate was not really what the Founders had in mind methinks.
     
  18. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    This should not pass...clear separation of church and state issues.

    If you want to advertise your religion, do it on a license plate holder, a bumper sticker or an icon glued to the dashboard. No need to put it on the car's government issued ID.
     
  19. atszyman thread starter macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #19
    But God could be any denomination, it does not require it to be the Christian God. This plate has a cross, the symbol of Christianity which endorses that above other religions who do not have their own vanity plates. There is no Star of David, or Crescent, or proposed path for every other religion to get their own license plates.

    Could I declare road rage as my religion and get a license plate with a big middle finger on it? It would save me a lot of trouble driving and allow me to keep both hands on the wheel :D.
     
  20. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #20
    I like your thinking. I could definitely use that as well, I've been unable to use my finger as often ever since I got a manual transmission car. The plate can be like my 3rd hand :D
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Really? Then I want a plate that says "I don't believe" with an upside down cross on it. The state can't deny me that if they're going to manufacture this pro-religious plate. I also want a rainbow flag license plate that says, "I'm a huge homo" on it. They can't deny me that either. If people don't want one they don't have ot get one. :rolleyes:
     
  22. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    Actually, you've just come up with an excellent income generator - make the "I'm a Huge Homo" plate standard issue, and the Christian a pay-extra option. The holy rollers would flock to the DMV to get their Christian plates at, say, $35 a pop. Budget = balanced.
     
  23. Teh Don Ditty macrumors G4

    Teh Don Ditty

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  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    You're f***ing awesome. :D
     
  25. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #25
    Defended on "national motto" grounds, not religious ones. Realistically we need a different national motto, not only because this one is blatant religionism, but also because the crypto-communists who were supposed to spontaneously combust at the sight of it are no longer around. That's a much bigger fight, though.

    I'm going to take a bit of a nutty view on this from some perspectives: Subject to certain constraints, I'm not sure I care. As long as we are in the business of allowing people to express personal opinions in license plate form, the door is open to anything. Moreover, the door must be open to anything. The problem is not inherently that Florida would do this, but that it is absolutely guaranteed they will not extend the same expressive option to other religious positions.

    Rep. Skidmore said, "It's not a road I want to go down. I don't want to see the Star of David next. I don't want to see a Torah next. None of that stuff is appropriate to me." She may have been betraying a really specific personal bias here, but she's on the right track in why she voted against it. If Florida does this, that's exactly what she needs to be prepared for. They would obligate themselves to do so.

    Where I have an extreme problem is the disposition of the funds raised. Once the state has taken in that money it is state money, which cannot be given to a nonprofit religious organization no matter what the views of the people who contributed it, and however voluntarily and advisedly they did so. Operating as a fundraising arm of a religious organization would seem on its face to violate the third prong of the Lemon test. People who wish to donate money to a religious organization can do so without using the government as an intermediary, and they can receive, say, a bumper sticker from the organization directly to express their views in a similar manner to that afforded by the plate. Thus the license plate scheme seems to be the very definition of excessive (and unnecessary) entanglement.
     

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