For those who do not like the look of Yosemite...

Discussion in 'OS X Yosemite (10.10)' started by tmoerel, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. tmoerel macrumors 6502

    Jan 24, 2008
    .... you are not ready for change and thus not ready for progress. Stay at Whatever OS X version you feel happy with and don't complain.

  2. lilianeloirinha macrumors newbie

    Jul 10, 2010
    I agree with this. I used to hate it at first but I've grown fonder of the new UI. I didn't care for the 3D dock for example, as I use it on the left edge of the screen and the 3D dock only worked on the bottom edge, so I've always seen the flat version. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that the dark theme only applies to the menu bar and dock, they did not update app windows to be dark :(

  3. Manic Harmonic macrumors 6502

    Dec 4, 2011
    I'm going to be using Yosemite regardless, but it doesn't mean I can't hate the 2d dock and hope that someone will figure out a way to get the 3d dock again. Especially a black one like I've always used. Other than that Yosemite is great.
  4. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
    You are wrong

    … you are wrong

    … and you are not George Bernard Shaw.

    Has George expressed a preference for one or more of the developer previews of Yosemite?
  5. tkermit macrumors 68040


    Feb 20, 2004
    I heard he was very fond of Snow Leopard.
  6. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
  7. scaredpoet macrumors 604


    Apr 6, 2007
    Explain why he's wrong.
  8. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
    1. I am one of those who do not like the look of Yosemite
    2. I am ready for change
    3. I am ready for progress.
  9. johnnnw macrumors 65816


    Feb 7, 2013
    Oh look, a thread that says no one can have an opinion.

    Bow down to the Apple gods!

    I like Yosemite but what a stupid thing to say that you're not allowed to dislike things.
  10. scaredpoet macrumors 604


    Apr 6, 2007
    Second and third premises are non-sequiturs.


    The thing is, the OP didn't actually say this. And while what he actually said might be open to debate (the Yosemite haters hate progress and fear change), there IS a point to be made that bellyaching over it endlessly here, is as productive as pounding sand.
  11. cebseb macrumors regular

    Feb 21, 2011
    Welcome to the Internets. I have all but given up hope on expecting everyone to have some semblance of rationality.
  12. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
    1. I do not like the look of Yosemite
    2. I have not simply bellyached, neither has bellyaching been endless
    3. discussions in MacRumors Forums can produce, and have produced, unexpected results.
    For me there is is nothing unexpected about this topic.
  13. oldmacs macrumors 68040


    Sep 14, 2010
    Yosemite is growing on me but I hardly see how the new interface is progress. Its just a new design... not a design centred around new usability - EG OS9 - OSX. They could have implemented every single feature with the Mavericks design.
  14. scaredpoet, Aug 28, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014

    scaredpoet macrumors 604


    Apr 6, 2007
    You presume I was talking solely about you, which is not the case. What you've been doing might not be bellyaching, in your eyes. But you do have a habit of making the topic about yourself, and then making personal statements as if they are universal truths that apply to everyone. Thus, non sequiturs.

    Case in point.

    So, steering this back to the topic for however long it lasts: Have people made reasoned arguments against what they hate about the new look that they have submitted to Apple's feedback app? that IS what it's there for. And not just "the new look sucks." What sucks about it? Why is the old look better? And can rational arguments be made without one making declaratives that start with "I?" "I" implies opinion. While people are welcome to their opinions, it's evident we've been down this road with iOS7, and it's clear the folks at Apple disagree with your opinion, and that's unlikely to change.
  15. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
    The opening post by tmoerel began:

    That appeared to be a personal statement, made as if it was a truth that applied to everyone who does not like the look of Yosemite.

    That statement certainly does not apply to me, or people like me. I responded to your question with some facts about me. Use of the numbers 1, 2 and 3 was simply to show that there were three (3) points. I did not imagine that you would misinterpret those facts as being on some kind of timeline.

    Clear to you; your opinion. Pot, kettle, black :D

    For discussion of Feedback Assistant, a more appropriate topic was begun by tmoerel:

    Please use the Beta Feedback Assistant!

    For those who do not like the look of Yosemite:

    Yosemite looks terrible!
  16. taedouni macrumors 65816

    Jun 7, 2011
    Man I love the look of Yosemite and can't wait until it's released.
    I'd upgrade to the beta if I didn't need my MBP to be stable.
  17. scaredpoet, Aug 28, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014

    scaredpoet macrumors 604


    Apr 6, 2007
    You responded with statements, but no facts to back it up.

    No; clear, period. Has the look of iOS 8 changed from iOS7? No, it hasn't. Have felt and stitched leather backgrounds and balky tape machine skeuomorphs made a comeback? No, thank goodness. Is Yosemite not taking cues from the iOS 7 makeover? Clearly, it is. Conclusion? It's pretty safe to say that Scott Forstall's return isn't happening anytime soon, and it's unlikely that Tim Cook is gonna give a "mea culpa" and bring back the Leopard Look in time for the Yosemite GM release.

    You could insist that all of the above is just my opinion of course, but then you'd really be putting your head in the sand.

    I think it's also just more than just personal opinion to conclude that the tide is largely against bringing the old look back from an usage perspective as well. Aside from the people who are fine with how Yosemite looks visually, you have people who might loudly complain, but aren't giving up their Macs anytime soon. Which would suggest that the change isn't so monumental to them that they HAVE to switch platforms. And a drastic lack of adoption, usage and future sales to the benefit of competitors is the only way Apple would be effectively convinced to change course.

    And lest there be any question about my opinion: I don't care either way. Yosemite can look like Mavericks, or it can look like IOS 7. I have Macs running both Mavericks and Yosemite, and while I notice the visual changes, things like whether the dock looks 2D or 3D are largely immaterial to me.
  18. nikicampos macrumors 6502a

    Jul 23, 2011
    Amazing quote, so true, and there's someone in this thread that needs to read it 100 times, we all know who he is. :D
  19. colourfastt macrumors 6502a


    Apr 7, 2009
    Like I said in another thread: the koolaid has gotten stronger.
  20. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
    I prefer rational discussion of the look of Yosemite

    scaredpoet, if you require statements to be backed up – and if you doubt that I'm prepared for change – please suggest some solid backup for the opening statement, which I interpreted as directed towards people like me. How am I not prepared for change?

    Please be reminded that I responded to your question with statements about me. If you wish to refute those statements with something that you believe to be closer to fact, then please make your contradiction solid; make it something that is irrefutable by me.

    I'd much prefer to engage in rational discussion of the look of Yosemite, there's plenty of that in the earlier topic. scaredpoet, the choice here is yours.
  21. scaredpoet macrumors 604


    Apr 6, 2007
    No sir, you, and you alone, are the one who took the statement and made it all about you. So, you tell us why the statement should or shouldn't apply to you. :)

    As for backing up the OPs comments, yes, I would agree that he or she should do the same. Though it is a tad easier to infer what they're probably hinting at here: without any specific reasoning other than "Yosemite looks terrible," it's a little difficult to avoid the conclusion that maybe people are reacting badly to it because they abhor change. That in itself is no crime: change for the sake of change isn't necessarily good. But reasoned arguments have yet to materialize that I've seen, other than the typical "I hate it, Steve is rolling in his grave, Time Cook should be fired" rhetoric, which gets us nowhere and are nonstarters.

    And that's the problem. The thread wasn't about you, until you alone made it such.

    There is nothing to refute; no provable facts have been provided.

    Then may I suggest you follow those links you provided earlier, and proceed there. Let's just hope the discussion actually stays reasoned and rational, without any of those pesky "I" declaratives that derailed this thread.
  22. SanJacinto macrumors regular


    Nov 3, 2011
    Milky Way Galaxy
    Ok, following your statement, everything Apple does is right. Apple does not make wrong decisions.
    I have to accept everything Jony Ive does, because he is the epitome of progress?

    Sad world.
  23. grahamperrin macrumors 601


    Jun 8, 2007
    I prefer rational discussion of the look of Yosemite

    Basically, I was the first person to bother challenging the opening statement. No big deal. My challenge was intentionally as terse as the opening statement. No big deal.

    You asked for more, I answered, and so on; those things need not be big deals.

    Consider the possibility that the opening post was more about that person than about the intended audience. As brief as it was, that post is certainly open to interpretation.

    scaredpoet, with respect, I think that you (more than me) spend too much time focusing on me in this topic.

    It's not all about the opening poster, it's not all about you, it's not all about me, but if you wish: you can continue to argue any or all of those points. Whenever a topic begins as this one did, the descent to criticisms of a personal nature are – truly – nothing unexpected.


    To me, the opening poster's two most significant words were the conclusion:

    don't complain

    – that was, debatably, a polite way of telling a group of people to shut up – a somewhat dismissive suggestion that could easily have been made in the earlier topic (incidentally, I did – still do – like tmoerel's opening post there). Instead, the choice was made to begin a dismissive new topic and embellish it with a George Bernard Shaw quote.

    Considering the implied telling to a group to shut up about something as topical and important as Yosemite, I think my initial response was relatively polite; and terse is relatively close to saying nothing.


    Misunderstandings such as these are more likely to occur, and maybe snowball, wherever comments are dismissive, exclusive, prejudiced (e.g. beginning a topic with a judgement that individuals are not prepared for change) or unnecessarily personal. I don't expect this topic to recover.

    Again: I'd much prefer to engage in rational discussion of the look of Yosemite. I believe that many of the Yosemite-related rational/reasoned arguments that people seek are already in the earlier topic; and that those parts of the topic will be more easily realised by focusing on what's articulated, more than on the person articulating.
  24. Phil A. Moderator

    Phil A.

    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2006
    Shropshire, UK
    I don't have an opinion on Yosemite one way or another, but would argue that whilst you may need change to progress, not every change is necessarily progressive, and people can embrace progress whilst rejecting non-progressive change.
  25. Deguello macrumors 6502a


    Jun 29, 2008
    Does Shaw have any quotes about begging the question? You should look into that.

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