Forced Institutionalizing Based on Social Media Posting

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rhonindk, Feb 15, 2018.

?

Should you be institutionalized against your will for evaluation?

  1. Yes

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  3. Only after an investigation

    15 vote(s)
    60.0%
  4. Undecided

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    sitting on a beach watching a DC simulation ...
    #1
    Watching a couple of news channels this fine morning and saw the same question raised on each. After thinking about it I decided to place it before my fellow posters.

    If you post on Social Media about planning to kill other people (like the recent Florida school shooting), should you be able to be institutionalized against your will for evaluation?

    Or is this an infringement on your liberties?
     
  2. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    #2
    If you say you are going to kill people, yes.
     
  3. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #3
    At the very least you should be thoroughly investigated and evaluated. This shooter apparently claimed to be a school shooter months ago on a YouTube comment. As we now know, that comment should have been taken more seriously. So yes, if you say something like that either out loud or online I’m perfectly fine with your liberties being put on hold.
     
  4. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    #4
    Unless you're in Florida where even knowing this and being known as "most likely to commit a mass shooting" at your school still isn't enough to keep an AR 15 out of his hands. Had this kid been a Muslim saying this we would've closed borders and halted flights but it was just a troubled teen.
     
  5. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #5
    Posting stupid comments online raises red flags, but that's no reason to haul someone away in the paddy wagon until you have definitive proof the poster is danger to himself and others. It's fairly easy to look through past posts from that user. If multiple posts of a similar vein pops up, pay him a visit. Have a head shrinker interview him to evaluate whether further actions is require. No going form zero to lock 'em up.
    Like Benny Franklin once wrote, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
     
  6. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #6
    Forced incarceration? no. Forced psyche eval.. likely yes.
     
  7. darksithpro macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2016
    #7
    Dude gets expelled from high school, living with foster parents. It was reported his guardian was taking him to adult school, so he could get his GED. How the frick did his foster parents not know he had an Ar-15 in his room? Behavioral problems, expelled and they never once thought to go through his room on occasion to see if he was abusing drugs, or had dangerous items to harm himself? Sounds like terrible parenting to me. Then again at 18-19 years old he's an adult, so they couldn't force him to do anything.
     
  8. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

    Joined:
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    USA
    #8
    Had to go there, didn’t you? Are you suggesting the FBI gave him a pass because he isn’t Muslim?
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #9
    They did know and apparently the agreement was he could keep it as long as he kept it locked up- and he had a key.

    I have a feeling between the guardians, school, authorities, and maybe even doctor(s) we will find that they really dropped the ball on ensuring this kid got the proper levels of care.

    He grew up in a single parent household. He had behavioral issues. His mother dies. He doesn’t like adoptive guardians and moves in with a friend’s family. He apparently stalked girls and had issues with his ex. He was said to be abusive to his ex, abusers are typically abused themselves.

    This kid obviously had a great deal of stress and trauma in his life, not to mention likely mental health problems. He was a ticking time bomb.

    There is definitely a “slippery slope” argument to be made about institutionalizing or even pyschologically evaluating someone who posts threats online. I think if you’re threatening to kill someone it should be taken seriously and investigated at a minimum and arrest/institutionalization/evaluation can stem from that. If someone is threading to become a “professional school shooter”, that should be taken very seriously, not to state the obvious.
     
  10. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Location:
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    #10
    The best parents in the world can still end up with kids who happen to be horrible people.

    I’m not saying his foster parents were great (I have no idea) but I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion based on the fact that they weren’t conducting daily room inspections. Honestly, if I feel that I need to go through that much trouble to make sure my 18yo isn’t doing something stupid, I’m probably putting him out.

    EDIT: If what @A.Goldberg said above is correct, then forget everything I just typed, as they’re absolutely terrible parents.
     
  11. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    #11
    Not just him but countless others who are regular citizens of the United States, absolutely. There are hundreds of thousands more deaths at the hands of our own citizens than there are by foreign terrorists, it's a well known statistical fact and our leadership refuses to address it.
     
  12. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #12
    I feel like I’ve read somewhere on this forum before that the FBI is soaked in integrity and never does anything wrong or with bias. But now you’re telling me that they let white people get away with murder. Is the FBI good or bad?
     
  13. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    #13
    I've never soaked the FBI in anything here one way or the other, you may have me confused with another member. In fact, I never pointed them out specifically at all here, I'm saying it's a systemic problem in this country that our leadership refuses to address, Obama gave speeches but never acted, Trump will do neither other than blame foreigners while giving disturbed Americans armed with assault weapons a free pass.
     
  14. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    sitting on a beach watching a DC simulation ...
    #14
    Saw this. If factual the FBI may have mucked up a chance to head this event off. (LINK)
     
  15. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #15
    They absolutely did. The kid used his actual name on YouTube. How hard could that be to track down?
     
  16. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    #16
    The problem is we don't have enough hospital space to put everyone who says something stupid online.
     
  17. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    #17
    If the motivation here is to blame the FBI for knowing about this and letting it go, then I'm 100% on board regardless of who the organization is, they failed the system and as a result 17 people were senselessly murdered.
     
  18. Volusia macrumors 6502

    Volusia

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Location:
    Central Florida
    #18
    Florida, like many states, has a provision within the law to allow the involuntary commitment for a period of time designed to allow the individual to be evaluated. It can be enacted by a Judge, a law enforcement officer, a medical or psychological professional but they must be able to articulate a well founded belief that the person poses an immediate theft to themselves or others. While this individual certainly exhibited a number of "red flags" we do not know enough about him to determine if he would have met that criteria.
     
  19. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #19
    I’m not blaming them yet. But this kinda doesn’t look good for them so far.
     
  20. CaptMurdock Suspended

    CaptMurdock

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Location:
    The Evildrome Boozerama
    #20
    Saying "something stupid" is one thing. That happens on the day ending in 'y'. Saying "I'm going to mow down the varsity" should be a red flag to at least do some legwork on this kid's life, and more to the point, see if he's packing any hardware.

    I certainly do not want to return to the days when people got thrown into the Cuckoo's Nest any time they wore a purple shirt to the church picnic. But something needs to be done. The Guns & Moses crowd is dragging their heels on any kind of gun regulation, so perhaps we need to tackle this from the other end.
     
  21. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
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    #21
    We don't have enough LEO's do do investigations justice....
     
  22. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    #22
    My point is we live in a society where people feel threatened if you don't allow them on a plane with their emotional support piglet. It's a hard thing to police unless you're simply limiting it to outward threats of "I'm going to kill XYZ". I read a tweet from someone who hated both teams in the superbowl this year and stated "I wouldn't care if both teams planes when down on the way to Minneapolis". Do we send someone to go pick that guy/gal up? Anyone and everyone who wishes ill towards anyone/anything?
     
  23. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #23
    They may not have been “terrible parents” (I assume you mean his guardians that allows him to keep an AR-15 in the house under HIS lock and key). It’s possible they just did not know how to handle the situation. Maybe they were aware of his mental health problems but didn’t understand the severity of how to help. Maybe their compassion for a kid who lost both parents overshadowed the fact he brought a gun into their house.

    I don’t like to make judgements on parents/guardians without knowledge. Even the most loving parents who make the right decisions can end up with disaster cases on their hands.
     
  24. Rhonindk thread starter macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2014
    Location:
    sitting on a beach watching a DC simulation ...
    #24
    Blame the FBI? No.
    Take a look at the reporting / investigation process and see if / where it failed and what we can / need to do in order to address that gap.
     
  25. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    #25
    I can appreciate your wanting to extend some grace to his guardians, but we do know that he was kicked out of school for (among other things) threatening other students. We know that he was stalking his ex. We know that he had an absolutely terrible childhood, losing both of his parents and that he was in counseling for that. And many of the kids who he went to school with have described him as a gun-obsessed loner.

    If his guardians were aware of any of this, then they not only failed him, but they failed those people that he murdered as well by allowing him to keep an AR-15 in their home.
     

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43 February 15, 2018