Forcing 4K at 60Hz in the 2013 13-inch rMBP

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by jonisign, May 16, 2014.

  1. jonisign macrumors regular

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    Jul 7, 2007
    #1
    I've been reading reports (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8023/apple-releases-osx-10-9-3-improved-4k-display) that the 2013 13-inch rMBP is being throttled to 4K at 30Hz over displayport in the latest 10.9.3 update. This seems unacceptable given that the hardware CAN support 4K at 60Hz in Windows over displayport 1.2.

    Think there is anyway to force 4K at 60Hz over displayport for the 13inch macbook pro in OS X? Maybe there is a way to trick OS X into thinking that the 13 inch is actually the 15 inch, which would get the intel driver to correctly output at the right pixel clocks? Just a thought–– there must be a way to do it!

    ----------

    By force, I mean is there any way to get MST working?
     
  2. ayeying macrumors 601

    ayeying

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    #2
    "The MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013) uses H series processors which support up to 3 displays at 3840 x 2160 @ 60 Hz, whereas the 13-inch, Late 2013 models use U series processors which only support 3 displays at up to 3200 x 2000, 24 bpp, 60 Hz, SST"

    It could be a hardware limitation here.
     
  3. jonisign thread starter macrumors regular

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    #3
    Interesting. While this might be a limitation for SST, MST should still work. That's how 60Hz is achieved in Windows at 4k.
     
  4. dblissmn macrumors regular

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    #4
    The download notes say the 15-inch only for full 60Hz external Retina support on 4K. The tech notes say any Late 2013 Retina MBP.

    Anyone know which is actually true? My purchase of a 13-inch Retina is hinging on it; I'd like to get my old stuff sold and the switch over and done with now, but not at the price of 4K external display support.
     
  5. jonisign thread starter macrumors regular

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    #5
    Interesting! I'm hoping to test this on the 13-inch at some point–– I don't have access to a 4K monitor yet, but hopefully soon.
     
  6. Hieveryone macrumors 68020

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    #6
    Yeah but it says any late 2013 13" at 30Hz not 60 :mad:
     
  7. yjchua95 macrumors 604

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    #7
    I don't think the late-2013 13" rMBP will be able to support 3840x2160 @ 60 Hz, simply because the Iris 5100 is too weak to support such a resolution at 60 Hz.
     
  8. Hieveryone macrumors 68020

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    #8
    What is the difference between 30 Hz and 60? Like what does that mean?
     
  9. .X. macrumors member

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    #9
    It means the image is redrawn 30 times per second or 60 times per second.
     
  10. Hieveryone macrumors 68020

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    #10
    Will it make a difference for internet browsing, youtube, mail, etc
     
  11. Quu macrumors 68020

    Quu

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    #11
    Yes. It will be very noticeable. Honestly I wouldn't even use a monitor at 30 FPS. Total waste of time.
     
  12. yjchua95 macrumors 604

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    #12
    It will. 30 Hz monitors runs very rough and stutters heavily.
     
  13. jonisign thread starter macrumors regular

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    #13
    The Iris 5100 DOES have the capability to display 3840x2160 at 60 Hz in multi-stream transport (MST) mode. MST sends information to the monitor as two separate tiles at 60 Hz, which are then fused together by the monitor. The hit you take there is that you can no longer output to 3 separate monitors, because you're effectively outputting the streams of two monitors into one display. However, if you're just using your macbook screen and a 4k MST display, or just the 4k MST display this won't matter at all.

    This is part of the specification for displayport 1.2 and Intel built this support into these chips. However, that being said, the earlier post suggested that singe-stream transport can only go this high in the 15-inch model.

    So, the question is whether Apple or Intel wrote drivers for the the Iris 5100 to output in MST in OS X. Intel HAS written these drivers for Windows, so the 13-inch can output at 60 Hz there, so this is NOT a hardware limitation. Either Apple has decided that some performance hit exists and they want to hide this option from users, OR Intel/Apple is too lazy to implement MST in OS X on the Iris 5100. Last I read Intel has said that they had no plans on bringing MST support to Linux either... so they're taking the lazy route there.
     
  14. dblissmn macrumors regular

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    #14
    But no. Allow me to quote from the tech notes:

    I don't see a display-size qualifier on that "Retina, Late 2013" inclusion. There certainly IS such a qualifier on the download notes but not on the tech notes. Let's hope that the people who are actually familiar with the inner workings of the software are the ones who wrote the tech notes. TO find that out, someone has to test it on their late 2013 13-inch RMBP.
     
  15. Hieveryone macrumors 68020

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    #15
    Well that would be great as I have the 13"

    I don't understand any of the tech specs but I'll figure it out when Dell actually gets a 4k out there.
     
  16. jonisign thread starter macrumors regular

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    #16
    I agree, hope that it really is both the 13 and 15 inches that can output at 60 Hz. Anyone have a 4k monitor to try it on?
     
  17. wisiena macrumors newbie

    wisiena

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    Jan 2, 2015
    #18
    So now I'm totally confused.
    All of you and authors of mentioned articles seems to mix name of DisplayPort (this big connector similar to HDMI but with locks and button) with MiniDisplayPort which is actually Thunderbolt in subjected Mac models.
    Could somebody explain how to connect MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2013) with Dell UP2414Q?
    Today I found UP2414Q monitor in the store and ask for experiment. This monitors have MiniDisplayPort (this small connector which now is named Thunderbolt) so I jumped to the car for my mac and to the Apple Store for Thunderbolt cable. When we connected monitor with this cable, nothing happened. So which port and cable should I use to test it?

    Thanks!

    (M.)
     
  18. TheIguana macrumors 6502a

    TheIguana

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    Canada
    #19
    No. It is a hardware limitation on Intel's end. The 13" Haswell version does not and never will support 60Hz output at 4k.

    See Intel's official documentation for the Haswell chipset, namely section "Display and Audio Features Comparison"
     
  19. jonisign thread starter macrumors regular

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    Jul 7, 2007
    #20
    Yeah I got this–– I wrote in another thread about ways to get 52Hz @ 4K on the 13'' Haswell. Looks great!
     

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