Foreign Mystery Sub in Scotland's Waters

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
  2. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #2
    The Canadians make their first bid for world domination...
     
  3. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #3
    Nah. It's just the Loch Ness monster, got loose from the lake, got lost, now trying to find its way back home.
     
  4. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #4
    So what you're saying is that the Canadians have found a way to weaponize the Loch Ness Monster?
     
  5. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #5
    Poor baby. But better the Canadians than whoever it really was. The Canadians just want some shortbread to take back with them. Who knows what the real mystery sub controller wanted. Nothing simple or good!
     
  6. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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  7. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #7
    I am always very suspicious of these stories, I have a firm belief they are manufactured by various arms manufactures to sell military hardware.

    Sales dipped since the end of the cold war for certain weapons systems and with these stories they hope to frighten governments into rash decisions.

    Same story a few months ago in Sweden also NOTHING found.
     
  8. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #8
    LOL! Thanks, I just blew coffee out of my nose. Great satire, though! :p
     
  9. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #9
    It's true! Terrorists aren't well known for their nuclear powered submarine programs. If you built your business around arming the silent service, you'd probably be finding yourself strapped for cash right about now.
     
  10. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #10
    I don't think these stories would be effective at cajoling governments into buying new military hardware as they would have far more access to intelligence on the matter, making them far more informed.
     
  11. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #11
    I meant to pressure the government via public outrage.:p

    ----------

    Europe has spent considerable less on military hardware since the end of the cold war.
     
  12. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #12


    Couldn't keep up due to economic issues, lower population, and the realization that the USA's "got this, brah"
     
  13. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #13
    The economy cut spending, but the real cuts were done years ago.

    The fact is the US hasn't got it, neither the US or Europe are going to fight a war over Ukraine.
     
  14. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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  15. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #15
    Nuclear subs don't get built and deployed over the Ukraine.

    An western Europe realized long ago the USA is the NATO big defense dog for Europe if the Russians or anyone pressed an offensive.
     
  16. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #16


    That still doesn't change the fact neither the US or Europe are going to fight a war over Ukraine.

    You still haven't got it, because it's never going to be used.

    If I was the US I save your fight for IS
     
  17. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    I always wonder if "nothing found" is dished out to the media just to put a lid on the story. There's not much more ability to put legs on a story if every reasonable source clams up after that pronouncement.

    Meanwhile maybe the investigating forces actually did identify the sub and notified the controlling state that the behavior did not go unnoticed? One wonders what behavior could cause things to escalate past that point. There's always the matter of miscalculation of response levels. It's a pretty risky game to enter another nation's territorial waters without inquiry or invitation.

    Maybe "nothing found" is the code for "um, it was one of our allies, and um, they said sorry, just a chartreading error..." and then the rest is left to be sorted out behind scenes by the diplomatic corps. Like to be a fly on the wall then!
     
  18. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #18
    You do know Ukraine has nothing to do with this story, right?

    Last I heard, the sub was seen near Scotland...kinda far from the Ukraine.
     
  19. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #19
    Perhaps it was Sean Connery defecting back home?
     
  20. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #20
    The foreign subs in Swedish waters being Russian/Soviet is pretty controversial, certainly the U137 incident in 1981 was a Soviet sub,since then there is no real evidence and many believe that are NATO subs:

    "Ola Tunander attributes the majority of these incursions to be of NATO origin:[27][28]

    Following the stranding of a Soviet Whiskey-class submarine in 1981 on the Swedish archipelago, a series of massive submarine intrusions took place within Swedish waters. However, the evidence for these appears to have been manipulated or simply invented. Classified documents and interviews point to covert Western, rather than Soviet activity. This is backed up by former US Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, who stated that Western "testing" operations were carried out regularly in Swedish waters with Swedish cooperation. Royal Navy submarine captains have also admitted to top-secret operations".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_submarine_incidents

    It wouldn't surprise me if the sub in Scottish waters was U.S. checking defences/evasion techniques.
     
  21. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #21
    Perhaps it was Russian. Revival of the Cold War is dangerous but could seem a great domestic distraction while the sinking price of oil continues to trash their already tenuous economic performance.

    Meanwhile for the second time this year a Russian military plane was just found to have been flying with transponders off above Sweden, again narrowly missing a commercial flight. AP via Guardian on December 13
     
  22. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #22
    If it’s the revival of the cold war, it has changed some what.

    Old state pre 1990’s

    Eastern block Police State, Spying on own population, use of torture, use of non judicial killings by military.

    Free West. Democratic society. Police Protect and serve, laws against torture enforced, citizens guaranteed trail before peers.

    NOW 2014

    East still pretty crap but getting better much to slowly.

    Not so Free West , CIA use torture, NSA spying both external and in USA, Drone executions of US citizens without trail, illegal invasion of soveriegn countries Iraq 2003, Patriots act, and a Police force that acts more like a Para military force of occupation.

    Putin's Russia might be bad but the USA is not that much better.
     
  23. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #23
    The way I see it, army officials are more than willing to spend tax money on defence programs. It's a safe way to ensure a steady well paid "consulting job" (also known as "delayed kickback") after they retire by working in those same companies they had previously awarded contracts to. The only problem is the average Joe Taxpayer doesn't want to spend two billion on a new submarine class, so from time to time, it's necessary to revive the fear from the enemy. Modern terrorist cells are a good market for drone makers, but you sure don't want all those Electric Boat shipyards to go without use...
     
  24. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #24
    It's just Russians being Russians. They've got nothing better to do with their time.

    It's not even cold war stuff because the Russian economic engine is now globally entangled.

    They rolled up into the Ukraine and it hasn't benefitted them one drop politically or economically. They are tanking their own economy and destroying the value of their biggest commodity and currency.

    This is no cold war II. This is Russia imploding because their leaders are morons.

    ----------

    Ever been to Scotland?

    I imagine public reaction would go like this: **** off ya wee radge **** before I kick **** oot o' you. Ya ken?
     
  25. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #25
    Right, I don't really think the Cold War can be revived. The 21st century for larger powers is more about cool wars, relationships that acknowledge interdependence but mess around at the edges with trade disputes and, unfortunately, cyberpranks that can get out of hand. Russia’s just having trouble trying to find its place in the 21st century: its geopolitics and economic dependencies are certainly as awkward as hell at the moment. It's problematic that Putin has been playing with matches, though; there's always the danger of an accident or an overreaction.
     

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