Foreign Policy 101: Dictator or Islamic Jihadists?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Nov 17, 2015.

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What is preferable in the Middle East, brutal dictator or Islamic Jihadists?

Poll closed May 17, 2016.
  1. Support the dictator because the alternative is too dangerous.

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Support freedom and accept instability and extremism until reasonable minds prevail.

    8 vote(s)
    80.0%
  3. Undecided

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    This point was raised on PBS this morning. Vladimir Putin is telling the US, I told you so. It's better to support a brutal dictator who maintains order, than to unleash Islamic Jihadists.

    What say you?

    What a ball buster of a choice! I was against the invasion of Iraq to overthrow Saddam Hussein. But I've questioned, since the Arab Spring, what would we end up with as the resulting governments. To be philosophically honest, to support human rights, you have to boot the dictator and but then prevent unleashed jihadists from oppressing citizens in the same manner, that is if you can afford to pay the economic and human price, and most importantly if you would have support of the people, which might be doubtful. Ultimately the people must stand for whatever it is they stand for. And if those people decide world wide jihad is the path, then it might turn into a world wide religious war. Is your head spinning yet? :p

    Under this circumstance, the dictator could be viewed as the lesser of evils as a pragmatic short term solution, but is that a real solution? I am undecided. My pragmatism and philosophical integrity are at war with each other... :(
     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    I'm voting against the dictator, because it seems that all that does is postpone choice #2.

    Plus it comes with it's own set of negative consequences.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #3
    their country so it should be their choice.
     
  4. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #4
    And their fight?
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #5
    I'm not sure they really get a choice.

    Dictators usually get that way via military coups or rigged elections. Or, as in the case Bashar al-Assad or Kim Jung-un by inheriting the job from daddy-dictator. (Purposely not inserting G.W. Bush snark here....) Islamist jihadis through mob action at the point of a gun.
     
  6. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #6
    A situation like this calls for the latest and greatest in remote-controlled dictatorship technology: Hitler-Bot.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #7
    their "choice" is to accept the dictator or work to make a better country on their own. if they have a civil war we should NOT interfere.
     
  8. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #8
    I'm not sure average Joe gets a choice when it comes to dictators or jihadists.
     
  9. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #9
    Except I guess you just did, didn't you?

    Not that I'm a big G.W.Bush fan, other than the fact that he kept that imbecile Kerry out of the White House.
     
  10. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #10
    I like this answer and am changing my vote. Thanks!
     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #11
    true,see post 7. you either accept it or rise up, but foreign nations should NOT be involved.
     
  12. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #12
    You seem to not understand the difference between a proxy war and a civil war.
     
  13. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    If directed at me, why don't you clarify, for my benefit.
     
  14. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Not directed at you ;)
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #15
    BY ALL means elaborate. we have refugees fleeing because of our involvement.
     
  16. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #16
    You position is akin to watching a man beating his wife and children to death over your garden wall; and doing nothing. And if they come knocking on your door in the middle of the night, you advocate slamming it in their faces.

    Remind me again what it says on the Statue of Liberty that stands in New York Harbor?
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    please, by all means overlook the fact Obama gave the man the alcohol that fuled the mans rage & led to him beating his wife. we armed the Fing rebels & bombed their country, in essence we are the ones who beat that wife & not you want to bring that beat up wife to sleep next to you

    [​IMG]
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    No. But as I wrote about compromised elections and dynastic Presidencies - my first thought wasn't the Duvaliers of Haiti.

    For the record I didn't believe either Bush was in any sense of the word a dictator. I don't believe the 2000 election was rigged. But the existence of both Bushes in the White House within a decade (and a third apparently eager to join them) - ought to remind us that such issues tend to be complicated, and that even a country dedicated to equality and opportunity; with elections as free and fair as possible - sometimes veers into weird territory. I inserted the winking reference to remind people of that.
     
  19. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #19
    Interesting that you didn't mention the Clinton situation, which I very sadly think will come to pass.
     
  20. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #20
    Some would argue that Putin is a brutal dictator.
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    and he should be dealt with by his people
     
  22. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #22
    Like that's possible.
     
  23. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #23


    Many of the US weapons ISIL is using were captured or abandoned by Iraqi military forces.

    Need I remind you that in the wake of Vietnam War, the United States gave haven to tens of thousands of Cambodian; Hmong; and Vietnamese refugees. These people were fleeing a civil conflict that was in many ways heightened and prolonged by US involvement. Needless to say that before being granted permission to enter the US, they received extensive security screening.

    What has been the result? Almost without exception the experience has been a net positive for the US. (Just last week I had dinner at a Vietnamese restaurant I assume was founded by refugees or the children of them.) The US gained tens of thousands of loyal, productive, tax-paying citizens. And - to my certain knowledge - not a single incident of terrorism. Despite hailing from a country that for many years remained acutely hostile to the US.
     
  24. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #24
    Whenever I read your posts, I hear them in my head as if they were read by Archer.

    Like THAT's possible.
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #25
    their country/their problem.
     

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