Former Press Sec throw admin under the bus

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by solvs, May 27, 2008.

  1. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #1
    Now This IS Interesting Scottie McClellan News
    Ouch. He said he had something big back when he first started doing press about this before the book was out. I guess I was wrong to not believe him. Mea culpa.
     
  2. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #2
    This is going to be a major story. Both Houses are already forming investigating committees. If these are examples of what is contained in his book, it will be explosive. We have been waiting for one of the 'inner circle' to come clean. He was privy to a great deal of insider knowledge.
     
  3. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #3
    One would hope, but we've been disappointed before. For all we know, Obama's former babysitter could come out and say something crazy. Then he'll refuse to wear a particularly colored ribbon and be called against whatever it stands for. And we'll be right back to wear we started. Or Clinton will say something stupid even though no one will really care.

    Besides, it's not like we didn't know this stuff already, even some of it confirmed by insiders before, and not much has come of it.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #4
    It's about damn time somebody did something. Unfortunately, it's too late for over 4,000 dead Americans and countless Iraqi civilians. :mad:
     
  5. wordmunger macrumors 603

    wordmunger

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Location:
    North Carolina
    #5
    Not exactly countless. The most conservative Iraqi death toll counts are about 150,000, and several are higher than 1,000,000.

    Source
     
  6. jb60606 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago
    #6
    I have to ask - are they required to wait until the damage is done before they spill their guts? Or is it just a question of when such a revelation would be most profitable...

    I'm tired of these ****s writing books about it instead of taking action when it may have actually made a difference. Sure; it's career suicide, but I'd hope that certain values take precedence over a job.

    Maybe this is the way it has always been done and I'm just not knowledgable enough in the political arena to pass judgement. I'm aware of non-disclosure. I'm just tired of hearing about people's inaction.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #7
    It's not the way it's supposed to be done. But I'm sure there are things that keep people from saying what they should- just look what happened to Colin Powell. He was against the war and then suddenly, all for it. You can't tell me that there wasn't some sort of threat or coercion used to get him to tow the line.
     
  8. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #8
    All true Lee. And yet, something which seldom comes up in conversation is the huge price being paid by the average Iraqi, on a daily basis. Millions of Iraqis have been displaced and their infrastructure decimated to a level, it is almost non-existent. Many had to flee the country for their lives. Some had enough means to live comfortably in Europe, but most have ended up in Syria, living in refugee camps. Baghdad only has electricity for a couple hours a day. Government services are dismal. Food is scarce, and starvation is not uncommon. Their industry has been slowed to a trickle, and jobs impossible to find. With no end in sight for the war, the average Iraqi wakes to another day of survival and without hope. It would be like all of America living like New Orleans, right after Katrina.

    Iraqis are tough and resilient. But, they have no chance to better themselves until we get the hell out of there.
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #9
    Yet another gutless pansy who's book deal is worth more than his honor.

    Memo to Scottie: Real courage is standing up for the truth when you can make a difference, not when you can collect a paycheck for it.
     
  10. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #10
    This is often the way it works unfortunately. A notable exception was John Dean. While the rest of the 'King's Men' were stonewalling and lying through their teeth, Dean came completely clean. He was the only one who took full responsibility for his actions and was genuinely remorseful. He later would write books about Watergate, he has become an important voice in understanding authoritarianism, the death-grip the neocons have had on America, the corruption of the Bush administration and the epidemic infiltration of the evangelical right-wing christian neo-cons.

    I agree it would be ideal if one of the inner circle came forward and spilled their guts, simply for the sake of wanting to do the right thing. However, it is still very valuable to hear McClellan's information, regardless of his motives.
     
  11. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #11
    The following is a letter I received from Congressman Wexler a few minutes ago. It addresses some of the issues we have been discussing in this thread. I thought I would share it with you. For those of you who do not know, Wexler has been one of the most active members, investigating the Bush administration and his band of jolly gallopers.

     
  12. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Location:
    Yahooville S.C.
    #12
    That letter is right, this president needs to be impeached along with answers from his whole team of draft dodging "patriots"
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
  14. jb60606 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Location:
    Chicago
    #14
    that's a promising letter - thanks for sharing.
     
  15. Mike Teezie macrumors 68020

    Mike Teezie

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2002
    #15
    Some of the talking heads were, uh, talking about this on CNN yesterday. The jist was that after Mclellan stood up there and said "under no circumstance did the CIA agent leak come from inside the White House" and then it came to light that, whoops, yeah it did - he felt his integrity and reputation had been totally shot to hell.

    Still, weak. Like everybody else has said, if he would have stood up when it mattered, I'd be more impressed. Though I don't believe for one second it would have made a shred of difference in the outcome.
     
  16. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    OBJECTIVE reality
    #16
    Agreed.

    Although we can still derive a certain grim amusement from seeing Scotty put the screws to his former colleagues.

    Just as we can derive some grim amusement by listening to White House staffers talk about how they're shocked, shocked!, at Mr. McClellan's sudden "change in attitude".

    Gee, I dunno... Do you think maybe Scotty was pissed about not only being lied to by the people he worked with every day, but about being hung out to dry in all of those ghastly press conferences where he was made to look like a complete and utter fool by the press, who apparently knew more about what was going on than he did?

    Apparently people like Tony Snow, Dan Bartlett and Dana Perino have no problem with being mindless pawns in the White House of Fraud. But McClellan obviously did, and I don't care if his motivation is revenge or sour grapes, I'm just glad he's coming clean, however belatedly.

    I am, however, amazed that Dan Bartlett can talk about other people violating his trust, and keep a straight face while doing it.
     
  17. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #17
    From Garrison Keillor's April 2 column "Theirs not to reason why":

    Link.
     
  18. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Location:
    The Dallas 'burbs
    #18
    I'm not saying this is what McClellan was doing but after Larry Lindsey and Eric Shinseki some may have thought that they could do more good working from the inside rather than being shut out the minute they tried to speak the truth. Of course once you have evidence enough to have them removed from office you should step forth immediately to limit the damage they are capable of producing, rather than hanging on and towing the line until you've ruined your own image.
     
  19. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #19
    I'm not going to defend Scottie taking forever to say something, but in several interviews he's been doing, he alludes to something being the breaking point and that it should have come out sooner, but he needed to research some things first and that there were some other delays. Glad this is getting play though. But no, not everyone is happy, as we've seen. He's being compared to the "liberal" blogs, called disgruntled, and well, the usual. Apparently, he's not the only one who feels this way though:

    Former Bush Aide: McClellan Is Getting Ripped For Telling The Truth
    There are also rumblings from the media itself sort of confirming what he's been saying, which in itself is news they should be covering.

    Also noting that we again have someone confirming they leaked the name of an undercover CIA agent (which used to be considered treason).
     
  20. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #20
    It is still called 'treason', Solvs. What is even worse, what do you think this does to field personnel's morale? Field agents spend (sometimes) many years developing a network of local insiders. They are committed to protect these sources and throw them a lifeline when their cover becomes exposed. When foreigners see an American CIA operative outed by that same government, and exposing her network, for political reasons, how comfortable do you think they are risking their lives? In the world of intelligence, what Rove, Novak, Libby, Cheney and Bush did was a catastrophic (and totally unforgivable) sin. It just shows to the world that we have amateur idiots running the show. The media should have been crawling all over this. Instead we get a new survivor series.

    All of these people should be tried for treason. I am dead serious. There is absolutely zero excuse for this high crime against the United States. It is very similar to another treasonous crime they committed in the lead up to the invasion. I do not recall the exact date.

    The WH had the story about the 'aluminum tubes' and the 'yellow cake'. The CIA experts in nuclear proliferation and uranium enrichment did not think this was in any way related to enrichment for use in weapons development. In fact, they were dubious about the aluminum tubes having anything to do with use in centrifuges. The WH ordered the political hack appointee, head of the CIA, to find analysts who would make the call for 'clear evidence of intending to enrich uranium for weapons grade uranium. Of course they found some. However, Jonathan Landay of Knight-Ridder quickly learned that the analysts who signed off on this conclusion, knew zero about the subject. He has many friends, and sources, in the CIA, and they told him the WH was 'cooking the intelligent books'.

    The WH wanted to use this as more propaganda for selling the war. The problem was, this was TOP SECRET intel. You had the VP (Cheney), SoS (Powell), National Security Advisor (Rice) and the SoD (Rumsfeld) plotting how to get the story out. So, they leaked the story to the NYT's reporter, Judy Miller, the night before (Saturday). She had been reporting the WH agenda and talking points for a long time. She was the functional equivalent of a second 'Press Secretary'. On Sunday morning, the front page of the NYT had the full story plastered on it.

    And, just by coincidence, that very morning, who pops-up on the Sunday morning talk shows? You guessed it; Rice, Cheney, Powell and Rumsfeld. I vividly remember Cheney saying, "Normally we could not talk about this, but it is now public knowledge ........".

    This just another glaring example of the WH thumbing their nose at the laws of our Country. And, it is perfectly clear, they knew they were breaking the law. First they leak the story, then come back and quote the story they leaked. Bob Simons said it best, "It is a remarkable thing to do - leak the story and then quote it later".

    Just getting rid of the Bush administration is not enough. The American people deserve justice. These traitors cannot be allowed to simply walk away from this. They must face justice and answer for their sins. We need to know that no one can commit high treason and go free.

    You and I could get 3 to 5 and lose our assets for smoking a little grass. The free pass for 'white collar' criminals must stop. I apologize to anyone who might think I am overly verbose on this subject. I admit I am very passionate about this. I did not fight the Vietnam war, to watch a country become a nation being ran by the SS. I guess what really irritates me is, these are a group of (barley) people, who have no personal courage of their own. They have alligator mouths and parakeet asses.

    .
     
  21. solvs thread starter macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #21
    Only if you're a Democrat. Look at what they almost got Clinton over (and to think, I used to be mad about that). Had Clinton done this, they would have hung him. IOIYAR.

    Scottie touches on this in the book. Again, could be considered high treason. And by could be, I mean it's the definition of it. No one cares. Thankfully, these people will be gone in a few months and history will judge them worse than Nixon (already are). I know it's not enough, but with such a weak opposition, it's about the best we could hope for.

    The best thing Obama and the next Dem Congress could do after they get into office would be to go after these crimes, but we all know the hell they'd catch from the "liberal" media if they even tried, which they wouldn't.
     
  22. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #22
    I am hoping that the democrats, after winning a significant majority in Congress, will want to go after justice. The American people will demand it. There will also be a large number of new progressive Democrats taking their seats. They will want to 'show their stuff' to us, who helped put them there. Who is going to complain about going after Bush and Company? The 23 percenters. Most of the Country will demand justice. American's have been brutalized by this oppressive regime for eight years. I do not think they will be satisfied with just allowing them to walk away. This, of course, is just my opinion. It should only be viewed in that light. I do not have any evidence to back it up.
     
  23. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Location:
    Up the irons
    #23
    Hahaha, you know the only thing new I learned from all this? That Scott Mcclellan is the son of gubernatorial candidate Carol Keeton Strayhorn. :eek:

    I did not know that.... and Bush backed Perry not his mother. :rolleyes:
     
  24. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Location:
    Tiger Mountain - WA State
    #24
    I found this on TPMMuckraker. It is a legal clarification of what we had discussed earlier. It has to do with Congressional authority for enforcing subpoenas.

    Bad news for Rove, and therefore good new for me.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #25
    I still say the Bush administration will run the clock out before Rove, Meiers, or any other 'loyal Bushie' makes statements to Congress under oath.

    Whether it's legal or not, it makes not a bit of difference. The Democrats may have the law on their side, but if the WH won't acknowlege Congress's co-equal status by ignoring the subpoenas; and if the Justice Department won't enforce the subpoenas; and with Congressional Democrats to scared to mess around with impeachment there is no mechanism outside of the federal courts that will compel anyone from the Bush administration to appear before Congress if they don't see a political advantage in doing so.

    The courts will take so long to sort this out (and indeed have shown an extreme reluctance to get involved in these sorts of disputes between the POTUS and the Congress) that it will be January 19th before anything happens.

    And of course after that, the next president will be under tremendous pressure to "move on" and not dig too deeply into the various matters "for the good of the country". And attempt to do so will be labeled "attempts at payback" by those who have done the deeds that would be worthy of paying back.

    IOW, long story short, I'll believe Rove will testify under oath to Congress when I see it. Until then I think it's a long shot at best. In a perfect world, he'd be there. With any other administration that didn't have the depth of experience at pulling the levers of power that this administration has, Rove would be testifying to Congress. But not this crowd. Not the guys who cut their teeth in the Nixon administration. They learned their lesson from that episode; and are determined to vest in the president powers beyond any other branch of government. To these guys, there is no such thing as co-equal.
     

Share This Page