Former Voice star Christina Grimmie shot dead outside Florida concert

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by smacrumon, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. smacrumon, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2016

    smacrumon macrumors 68030

    smacrumon

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    #1
    This is completely tragic. Former Voice star Christina Grimmie shot dead outside Florida concert

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...stina-grimmie-shot-outside-concert-in-florida


    For those defending the kind of unregulated gun use prevalent in the US, a question -- where were all the responsible gun owners helping to defend Christina Grime?

    Insane persons, with guns, strike without notice, they injure and they kill.
    However, insane persons, without a gun, can still strike without notice, but are less likely to kill.

    Insane persons can't shoot people dead if they don't have access to guns.

    Reduce the circulation of guns, President. Take courage, do it now please.


    The issue is there are too many guns in circulation in the USA-- obtaining guns is too easy, there should be 28-day cooling off periods when buying a gun, and extremely tough laws for not locking up guns correctly.

    The US needs to completely overhaul its gun laws. Guns need to be restricted immediately and a nationwide gun buy back needs to be implemented now.

    Unfortunately it means responsible gun owners will need to make compromises here and surrender some of their guns. Responsible gun owners can at least take some comfort that they will play a part in helping to save future lives.
     
  2. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Awesome, taking tragedy to spin it to your political position. Classy.
     
  3. Meister, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016

    Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #3
    Sensless anti 2nd amendment propaganda.

    OP is shamelessly abusing other peoples suffering for his stupid political agenda.

    Truly despicable!
     
  4. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #4

    Truth hurts don't it ?
     
  5. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    I think his "political agenda" probably has something to do with wanting to reduce the number of people getting shot rather than deprive people of guns.
     
  6. smacrumon, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016

    smacrumon thread starter macrumors 68030

    smacrumon

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    Great irrelevant comment. No. It's a position of human decency and highlighting stupidity in gun ownership laws.
    Gun ownership laws must change. Gun laws must change NOW.

    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    You clearly don't understand the second amendment.

    The second amendment wasn't intended for every citizen to bear arms and take them into a night club or a meet and greet music artist signing session. A nightclub isn't a state, an artist signing isn't a state. Get a clue and learn about the second amendment and stop spreading your NRA pro gun lobby propaganda. Pathetic.

    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Yes, exactly, my post has ZERO political agenda. I want to reduce the number of people getting shot and the only way that can occur is reducing the number of guns in circulation. Unfortunately the current state of affairs is not working. The NRA pro gun lobby way of life has failed, and it has failed miserably.
     
  7. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #7
    You are lying.

    The scholarly commentary from the times of the second amendment are very clearly stating that it is meant to protect the right of private citizens to arm themselves:

    "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." Tench Coxe - 1792

    http://guncite.com/journals/reycrit.html


    "In America we may reasonably hope
    that the people will never cease
    to regard the right of keeping and bearing arms
    as the surest pledge of their liberty."

    Although Tucker had addressed the Second Amendment in his footnotes to Blackstone, the Constitutional Appendix gave Tucker the opportunity for a fuller exposition of the Amendment:

    "This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms, is under any colour or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction. In England, the people have been disarmed, generally, under the specious pretext of preserving the game: a never failing lure to bring over the landed aristocracy to support any measure, under that mask, though calculated for very different purposes. True it is, their bill of rights seems at first view to counteract this policy: but the right of bearing arms is confined to protestants, and the words suitable to their condition and degree, have been interpreted to authorize the prohibition of keeping a gun or other engine for the destruction of game, to any farmer, or inferior tradesman, or other person not qualified to kill game. So that not one man in five hundred can keep a gun in his house without being subject to a penalty."

    George Tucker - 1790 and 1803


    https://books.google.com/books?id=NTQ0AQAAMAAJ
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    You tell that to the people of chicago.


    If you don't like the liberties guaranteed by the constitution then leave!

    May I recommend france.
    I heard their rock concerts are very exciting.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Why?
    Are you in pain already?

    I am so sorry! :p
     
  8. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #8
    I usually don't post in the PRIS, but I will say this.
    The war on drugs worked so well, in so far that we've outlawed drugs and no one now has a drug problem, so I can see how outlawing guns will remove guns from all the people who wish to do harm :rolleyes: /s
     
  9. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 603

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #9
    I don't think many people will suggest banning something will eradicate a problem. Restricting something and controlling it's use does have a positive effect though even illegal drugs.

    The problem America seems to have is that a vocal segment don't want any form of gun control whatsoever. They are also the first to deflect blame though when a tragedy like these happen however. The problem is nobody wants a bad guy or a potential bad guy getting hold of a gun, but they also don't want measures put in place to limit that chance because it infringes a set of rights. Nothing proactive will ever be achieved unless the problem is taken seriously. Also no amount of investment into mental health treatment will prevent people becoming ill so the solution falls at the feet of modern day gun control, not banning, control. It's not as frightening as many think.
     
  10. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

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    #10
    Ask Hussein...
     
  11. deany, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2016

    deany macrumors 68030

    deany

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    #11
    RIP Christina a beauiful person lost far too young.
    X
     
  12. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #12


    Senseless and vile, period. My condolences to the families involved.



    Relevant and accepted. The 2nd Amendment clearly spells out "necessary to the security of a free State".

    Additional: I do not know Florida's gun laws at this time, if Florida allows conceal/carry or otherwise.

    Or why there were not enough guards - can't these acts afford security? Noting the industry involved, they're anything but paupers.



    Sky is also blue unless it rains.



    That also involves responsibility of agencies that do background checks and, more importantly, stores and individual citizens from thinking they should be able to give any old insane joe a gun to play with, since bypassing these laws has numerous opportunities. Who is more likely going to allow an unauthorized person to have a gun, failed bureaucracy or the gun store owner or gun owner that feels, without evidence, that what they say is better than a law designed by committee? (Even then the committees can be wrong, but who said any of this was simple? Barney the Dinosaur?)

    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Saddam has been dead for years. Get over him. If you're refferring to anyone else, cite whole names or stop assuming we know to whom you refer. Or the parallels in which the misuse of the name is made.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    You're right. Let's not talk about things. The problem will magically bury itself under a rock. That's a lot more klassy, ain't it?
     
  13. samiwas macrumors 68000

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    #13
    Like you did?
     
  14. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    People insisting on doing evil will continue to do evil. The violence occurring in Chicago is a great to illustrate this. So many people are dying from gun violence in that city, yet most of those people doing the violence are gang bangers, drug dealers and other criminals - at least that's my opinion. Outlawing guns will not prevent that sort violence.

    I also want to ensure the safety of my family and if someone breaks in, I have the ability to stop them from hurting my family.
     
  15. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 603

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #15
    America is no different to any other country when it comes to violence among criminals. Why do you have so many innocent victims in shootings when compared to other countries though?
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Excellent post, too often liberals try to frame the second amendment as some sort of right after you join a government military unit, which is the complete opposite intention of the law.
     
  17. copykris Suspended

    copykris

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    #17
    isn't anything that doesn't fit your agenda "truly despicable senseless/shameless anti ____________ propaganda"?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    guys,

    this guy was there when they drafted 2A
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #18
    Are you having problems reading the quotes in the post I quoted?
     
  19. smacrumon, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016

    smacrumon thread starter macrumors 68030

    smacrumon

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    #19
    "Doing evil will continue to do evil" -- sure, but if there are reduced guns in circulation, there will be reduced chances the violence will be gun related and damaging. Christina Grime's attacker had two handguns and a hunting knife. Where did those weapons come from, why were they in the attacker's possession?
    Jurisdictions should have zero tolerance on violence from gang bangers, drug dealers and other criminals. Citizen shouldn't have to feel they need to protect themselves. This is a state issue. Citizens pay enough in taxes to have their protection ensured. Until then, best put locks on the doors, as well as alarms on doors and windows to shock would be offenders into reconsidering their future actions.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Your comments are senseless and vile, period. Of course condolences to the families involved. However this issue needs to be discussed now and action taken now to help prevent any future gun related deaths like this.
    How dare you criticise my well intentioned post and turn it into something it wasn't.
    Twist the words. Spin your web of lies.

    • 28 day cooling off period = Buy a gun today, wait 28 days to take it home.
    • Increase the restrictions on who can own a gun.
    • Increase penalties for individuals breaking new gun laws.
    • Gun buy back = Reduced number of guns available across the nation, reduced the number of guns in communities.
    • Categorize guns so that access to semi automatics are completely not able to be purchased without special licenses.
    Less guns = lower chances of gun related injuries and deaths, accidental or premeditated.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Sorry, I don't make up lies. I'm not a liar. I'm not that person in this conversation.

    The second amendment did not mean what is going today in the USA. We are living in 2016, not the 1700's. Get with the program. Check the mentality of your arguments.

    "A federal appeals court ruled Thursday that the Second Amendment does not protect the right to carry a concealed firearm in public. Another appeals court has reached a somewhat different conclusion, and the question is bound eventually to demand the attention of the Supreme Court."
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...mendment-perspec-0612-md-20160610-column.html

    Declare you relationship with the NRA before continuing.
     
  20. deany macrumors 68030

    deany

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    #20
    So if you were a member of Christina's family you would want her to be remembered by clicking on this thread so soon after her passing (apart from your opening first sentence).

    I dont think so.
    ........


    RIP Christina ∞
    X
     
  21. smacrumon thread starter macrumors 68030

    smacrumon

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    #21
    Thanks for speaking on behalf of Christina's family...

    Christina's family would want to do everything to prevent something like this ever happening again.

    RIP Christina ∞
     
  22. deany macrumors 68030

    deany

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    #22
    This should be a condolences thread so soon after her passing.

    Too soon & another thread for gun control.

    RIP Christina ∞
     
  23. smacrumon thread starter macrumors 68030

    smacrumon

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    #23
    Please start a condolences thread, what a thoughtful suggestion. But it's certainly not too soon to discuss the issue of gun control. It's absolutely tragic, but if we don't discuss and do something about it now, these kinds of killings will continue forever. Gun control is necessary.
    RIP Christina ∞
     
  24. jgelin, Jun 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2016

    jgelin macrumors 6502a

    jgelin

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    #24
    The man who shot her worked at my local best buy, he sold me RAM sticks some months ago. He rode his bike to work and was a smoker, seemed a bit 'off' socially when you talked to him. I am so saddened that this happened, and on top of the one today, this state is in shock and mourning.
     
  25. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #25
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