Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
foxPEP and TenFourFoxPEP - For A Faster Firefox / TenFourFox
- Thread starter z970
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Honestly, it's hard to say exactly at this point, because I hadn't used AF much under Linux before installing it. As compared to TFF under OSX, its flying, but I think it was noticeably quicker before installing FoxPep (To be clear I had FoxPep installed on TFF as well). I'd say it's slightly slower than LeopardWebkit at this point, but obviously way more stable. I also am wondering if I'm realizing all the benefits, because I'm suspicious that 2D acceleration isn't working correctly atm, so I'm about to post in the Remix thread about that.@dbdjre0143 How does it drive?
So far, so good though. I could definitely see this being a permanent change for my PB.
I've been considering moving this thread over to the General Discussion subforum, given the state of the browsers available to PowerPC, and what that means for optimization projects like foxPEP. TenFourFox is bloated and CPU-bound, Arctic Fox for PPC OS X is half-broken, SpiderWeb and InterWeb on Linux break in half when GPU acceleration is enabled, and from what I remember using, Arctic Fox on Linux and 10.6 have strange implementations of certain content rendering features that do not match 1:1 with other browsers (which often leads to unexpected behavior during testing).
From the best of my observation, the issue is not necessarily that the techniques employed in the script are unsupported by Gecko and Goanna, but that they leverage the (very) modern frameworks of Servo in a way that Firefox Quantum is currently the only browser to really take full advantage of, hence the much faster return on performance with foxPEP installed there as opposed to most other places.
Given the above, it's no wonder that foxPEP provides a comparable speed to Erik's tweaks for those who have tried both on the same gimped browser, evidenced by the recently uploaded benchmarks.
So when you start including comparatively limitless environments like Windows, Linux, and macOS with a plentiful selection of non-gimped, full-throttle browsers into the question that are able to take full advantage of what's on offer, the situation suddenly becomes a lot less bleak to the developer, and a lot more attractive to the end user. Especially when said user is then consequentially allowed access to a much broader range of hardware than just those that are PowerPC-based, in return benefiting more from the patch, and vice-versa.
All things considered, I think that is no doubt a better strategy for both parties in the long run.
From the best of my observation, the issue is not necessarily that the techniques employed in the script are unsupported by Gecko and Goanna, but that they leverage the (very) modern frameworks of Servo in a way that Firefox Quantum is currently the only browser to really take full advantage of, hence the much faster return on performance with foxPEP installed there as opposed to most other places.
Given the above, it's no wonder that foxPEP provides a comparable speed to Erik's tweaks for those who have tried both on the same gimped browser, evidenced by the recently uploaded benchmarks.
So when you start including comparatively limitless environments like Windows, Linux, and macOS with a plentiful selection of non-gimped, full-throttle browsers into the question that are able to take full advantage of what's on offer, the situation suddenly becomes a lot less bleak to the developer, and a lot more attractive to the end user. Especially when said user is then consequentially allowed access to a much broader range of hardware than just those that are PowerPC-based, in return benefiting more from the patch, and vice-versa.
All things considered, I think that is no doubt a better strategy for both parties in the long run.
Last edited:
foxPEP has been updated to version 1.9.2.
1.9.2 makes further improvements to page loading times, scrolling fluidity, content rendering, and script size.
Feedback is welcome.
1.9.2 makes further improvements to page loading times, scrolling fluidity, content rendering, and script size.
Feedback is welcome.
Last edited:
@MacFoxG4 Well... that's just unexpected. Every browser on every platform I've ever tested, including AF on SL, has never crashed at a YouTube video, and by all accounts have been much improved with zero drawbacks.
Scanning through 1.9.2's engine configuration, I could find nothing that should ever cause that to happen.
My best guess is that Arctic Fox is so niche of an implementation and is such a rapidly aging Frankenstein of a browser, it (the latest version, at least) cannot handle whatever kind of reasonable load it has to deal with when modified, self evidenced by its crashing and freezing on many different SL installs (many times I've experienced myself) even when in a totally stock state.
Go ahead and remove the patch, and make a new preferences file. Assuming it was not the cause of the crash, if you set media.webm.enabled to false in about:config, you should still be able to get the smoother video playback (720p) nonetheless.
I would say maybe try TenFourFox FPR23 instead of Arctic Fox. foxPEP should work better with it than the latter.
It was my fault to recommend foxPEP for Arctic Fox. Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.
Scanning through 1.9.2's engine configuration, I could find nothing that should ever cause that to happen.
My best guess is that Arctic Fox is so niche of an implementation and is such a rapidly aging Frankenstein of a browser, it (the latest version, at least) cannot handle whatever kind of reasonable load it has to deal with when modified, self evidenced by its crashing and freezing on many different SL installs (many times I've experienced myself) even when in a totally stock state.
Go ahead and remove the patch, and make a new preferences file. Assuming it was not the cause of the crash, if you set media.webm.enabled to false in about:config, you should still be able to get the smoother video playback (720p) nonetheless.
I would say maybe try TenFourFox FPR23 instead of Arctic Fox. foxPEP should work better with it than the latter.
It was my fault to recommend foxPEP for Arctic Fox. Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.
Last edited:
I would advise against any messing around in about:config and/or using an additional prefs file when it comes to AF, SW or IW browsers. They are all based on Pale Moon code, therefor they are not firefox. The code is similar, but different. The PM dev team already tweaked the stock prefs file to work best with these changes. I personally don't change anything (except maybe a user agent override) from default on those browsers and have no issues. On intel there is really is no reason to tweak anything. Those machines are more than powerful enough that they don't need the extra help. As @z970mp mentioned in an old post awhile back, don't try to tweak AF's prefs with Firefox tweaks. It will implode. It's not Firefox. It's close because it's based on mozilla code, but there are thousands if not millions of lines of code different between the two. I'd only suggest experimenting with prefs if you have a slow machine that struggles, otherwise the default settings are default for a reason.
Typically only an ad blocker (custom hosts file recommended) and script blocker (noscript/umatrix) are all that's needed for a pleasant experience. Also all 3 of the above browsers (AF/SW/IW) are compiled without webrtc, geolocation, neckowifi etc that PEP tries to disable (because they aren't disabled in TFF or regular FF), so that portion of the custom prefs is rendered mostly useless. Everyone has their own way they like to set things up, and i find the less you mess with a browser, the better it works. Too many prefs changes and too many add-ons/extensions, in my testing, slows a browser down vs what many think will speed it up. However, everyones setup, and browsing style is different, so your mileage will vary. Use what works best for you. Me.. only a custom hosts file to block ads, some form of script blocker (usually noscript, if i even bother installing a script blocker) and grease monkey (for various tasks). Thats it. No more, no less, and if you've seen my youtube videos, you'll notice how quick and smooth they all browse even on G4 machines.
Cheers
Typically only an ad blocker (custom hosts file recommended) and script blocker (noscript/umatrix) are all that's needed for a pleasant experience. Also all 3 of the above browsers (AF/SW/IW) are compiled without webrtc, geolocation, neckowifi etc that PEP tries to disable (because they aren't disabled in TFF or regular FF), so that portion of the custom prefs is rendered mostly useless. Everyone has their own way they like to set things up, and i find the less you mess with a browser, the better it works. Too many prefs changes and too many add-ons/extensions, in my testing, slows a browser down vs what many think will speed it up. However, everyones setup, and browsing style is different, so your mileage will vary. Use what works best for you. Me.. only a custom hosts file to block ads, some form of script blocker (usually noscript, if i even bother installing a script blocker) and grease monkey (for various tasks). Thats it. No more, no less, and if you've seen my youtube videos, you'll notice how quick and smooth they all browse even on G4 machines.
Cheers
I would advise against any messing around in about:config and/or using an additional prefs file when it comes to AF, SW or IW browsers. They are all based on Pale Moon code, therefor they are not firefox. The code is similar, but different. The PM dev team already tweaked the stock prefs file to work best with these changes. I personally don't change anything (except maybe a user agent override) from default on those browsers and have no issues. On intel there is really is no reason to tweak anything. Those machines are more than powerful enough that they don't need the extra help. As @z970mp mentioned in an old post awhile back, don't try to tweak AF's prefs with Firefox tweaks. It will implode. It's not Firefox. It's close because it's based on mozilla code, but there are thousands if not millions of lines of code different between the two. I'd only suggest experimenting with prefs if you have a slow machine that struggles, otherwise the default settings are default for a reason.
I'll keep that in mind.
I run uBlock Origin for blocking ads on Arctic Fox and TFF, but that's it for add ons.
@wicknix Regarding AF / SW / IW, I must agree. I of course applaud you and Riccardo for your continued efforts in developing and porting them over to these disadvantaged architectures, but the truth is that they have been more or less nothing but trouble whenever they have been modified in my countless tests.
On the other hand, I have not, and continue to not see the same behavior exhibited from Pale Moon, Basilisk, etc. whenever I've given them the same treatment, which is why I specifically pointed out Arctic Fox and not its derived roots. Additionally, several PEP users have confirmed this conclusion on their ends (as I already suspected in the first place).
Even so, I've since then decided to limit foxPEP's support of that realm to only those built on vanilla UXP to remain on the safe side, as it works better there (thanks to UXP's closer standards compliance) as opposed to when paired with previous incarnations of Goanna appearing in browsers like PM 27 and older.
Therefore, Arctic Fox and its relatives will be dropped from support in the next release. The user will remain free to install the PEP onto whatever they wish, but it will be at their own risk if their browser of choice is missing from the official support list.
Concerning Pale Moon's default configuration, no matter how good it is hailed to be, better performance (it goes without saying without compromise) is always preferred when on a low end Pentium III with no other realistic venue of 'fox. And when better performance is achieved, the result usually scales as expected on comparatively stronger hardware, which is why it is advertised for those included.
-
Side note...
I've been wrangling with this since foxPEP's inception. All I can say is that there's a reason it's had 17 revisions thus far instead of three, and I can assure you, each step comes demonstratively closer to disproving the first half of that oft-appearing hypothesis all together.
And that's, in essence, the job's allure.
On the other hand, I have not, and continue to not see the same behavior exhibited from Pale Moon, Basilisk, etc. whenever I've given them the same treatment, which is why I specifically pointed out Arctic Fox and not its derived roots. Additionally, several PEP users have confirmed this conclusion on their ends (as I already suspected in the first place).
Even so, I've since then decided to limit foxPEP's support of that realm to only those built on vanilla UXP to remain on the safe side, as it works better there (thanks to UXP's closer standards compliance) as opposed to when paired with previous incarnations of Goanna appearing in browsers like PM 27 and older.
Therefore, Arctic Fox and its relatives will be dropped from support in the next release. The user will remain free to install the PEP onto whatever they wish, but it will be at their own risk if their browser of choice is missing from the official support list.
Concerning Pale Moon's default configuration, no matter how good it is hailed to be, better performance (it goes without saying without compromise) is always preferred when on a low end Pentium III with no other realistic venue of 'fox. And when better performance is achieved, the result usually scales as expected on comparatively stronger hardware, which is why it is advertised for those included.
-
Side note...
I've been wrangling with this since foxPEP's inception. All I can say is that there's a reason it's had 17 revisions thus far instead of three, and I can assure you, each step comes demonstratively closer to disproving the first half of that oft-appearing hypothesis all together.
And that's, in essence, the job's allure.
Last edited:
foxPEP version 2.0, bearing the new codename Ingenuity, has been released!
Starting now, foxPEP will no longer be hosted on MacRumors and will instead be based in GitHub for a multitude of reasons, including expansion potential, exposure, convenience, and cooperative endeavoring just to name a few. This includes future updates and notifications.
Ingenuity marks the debut of the Bloat Trimming Engine, which blocks out ad and tracking servers from using bandwidth and resources, thus accelerating site loading times and all-around responsiveness. Not only that, scrolling performance has seen a massive consistency improvement from version 1.9.2 thanks to new modifications in frame rate and WebGL configurations, images render even faster than before after altering key image rendering settings, and resource efficiency has been improved by tweaking cache and JavaScript handling. And, webpages are now prone to 'snap' open due to adjustments made in page painting.
Plus, a new document has been included, dubbed 'The foxPEP Guide To The Internet', which will serve as a "hub" of sorts for lightweight browser options, future links to optimized browser builds, and pointers for how the user can further improve browsing performance by themselves.
New horizons await!
github.com
![newfoxPIC.png]( "newfoxPIC.png")
Starting now, foxPEP will no longer be hosted on MacRumors and will instead be based in GitHub for a multitude of reasons, including expansion potential, exposure, convenience, and cooperative endeavoring just to name a few. This includes future updates and notifications.
Ingenuity marks the debut of the Bloat Trimming Engine, which blocks out ad and tracking servers from using bandwidth and resources, thus accelerating site loading times and all-around responsiveness. Not only that, scrolling performance has seen a massive consistency improvement from version 1.9.2 thanks to new modifications in frame rate and WebGL configurations, images render even faster than before after altering key image rendering settings, and resource efficiency has been improved by tweaking cache and JavaScript handling. And, webpages are now prone to 'snap' open due to adjustments made in page painting.
Plus, a new document has been included, dubbed 'The foxPEP Guide To The Internet', which will serve as a "hub" of sorts for lightweight browser options, future links to optimized browser builds, and pointers for how the user can further improve browsing performance by themselves.
New horizons await!
GitHub - zgxSystems/foxPEP
Contribute to zgxSystems/foxPEP development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
Last edited:
New horizons await!
Thanks for the update. I'm testing right now on my Thinkpad T400 (Palemoon 28.10.0 and Windows 10) and so far it's awesome, but what will happen to our beloved PPC browser tweaks starting with this release (OSX and Linux variants)?
It will continue to "work" with TenFourFox despite the listed minimum macOS version, however as the browser comes compiled with so many technologies disabled (as do 10.4 / 10.5 themselves), TFF is unable to replicate the full effect intended, handicapping the end result. Thus, it will work on an as-is basis only.
Similarly, Arctic Fox, SpiderWeb, and InterWeb work on an as-is basis as well, however not out of the box. Hardware acceleration will need to be disabled on SpiderWeb and InterWeb by removing the lines user_pref("layers.acceleration.enabled", true); and user_pref("layers.acceleration.force-enabled", true);, and Arctic Fox will only launch after installation if the lines user_pref("gfx.canvas.azure.backends", "cg,skia,cairo"); and user_pref("gfx.content.azure.backends", "cg,skia,cairo"); are removed.
I hope that answers your question.
Last edited:
"Me.. only a custom hosts file to block ads, some form of script blocker (usually noscript, if i even bother installing a script blocker) and grease monkey (for various tasks). Thats it. No more, no less, and if you've seen my youtube videos, you'll notice how quick and smooth they all browse even on G4 machines."
For 10.4 and 10.5, what script blocker you recommend? Also, what various tasks and how do you do them?
For 10.4 and 10.5, what script blocker you recommend? Also, what various tasks and how do you do them?
@arkieboy72472 : I think that comes down to personal preference. A lot of people like umatrix, but it involves quite a bit of initial set up for sites to function properly. Then there is NoScript, which i find easier to use, and is probably just as popular. Or something super simple like YesScript which just toggles javascript on and off on a per site basis.
Greasemonkey is a userscript manager. It enables users to install scripts that make on-the-fly changes to web page content after or before the page is loaded in the browser. For instance, viewtube is a popular script to download youtube videos, or watch youtube in an external player rather than slow/choppy browser playback. You can also get scripts to disable annoyances on certain sites like facebook. There are hundreds of uses for grease monkey. Here is a good site to search for such scripts: https://greasyfork.org/
Lastly, i prefer a custom hosts file vs an adblock browser extension. It will block ads system-wide, and not bog down the browser. Get it here: https://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm with mac installation instructions here: http://pointhope.de/tips&tricks/no_place_like_localhost.html
Cheers
Greasemonkey is a userscript manager. It enables users to install scripts that make on-the-fly changes to web page content after or before the page is loaded in the browser. For instance, viewtube is a popular script to download youtube videos, or watch youtube in an external player rather than slow/choppy browser playback. You can also get scripts to disable annoyances on certain sites like facebook. There are hundreds of uses for grease monkey. Here is a good site to search for such scripts: https://greasyfork.org/
Lastly, i prefer a custom hosts file vs an adblock browser extension. It will block ads system-wide, and not bog down the browser. Get it here: https://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm with mac installation instructions here: http://pointhope.de/tips&tricks/no_place_like_localhost.html
Cheers
Quick question to anyone listening:
Does 2.0 feel slightly less responsive than 1.9, mainly in total loading times? Including a delay for page painting was a last minute decision and was done on the theoretical basis of making content render faster because the system wouldn't have to bother updating the window with each new packet, but on every system I've demoed, it doesn't make actually make any real world difference and only contributes to making the browser feel slower instead of faster, especially on modern machines.
That said, any comments, suggestions, complaints, or other input given either here or at GitHub is always appreciated.
Does 2.0 feel slightly less responsive than 1.9, mainly in total loading times? Including a delay for page painting was a last minute decision and was done on the theoretical basis of making content render faster because the system wouldn't have to bother updating the window with each new packet, but on every system I've demoed, it doesn't make actually make any real world difference and only contributes to making the browser feel slower instead of faster, especially on modern machines.
That said, any comments, suggestions, complaints, or other input given either here or at GitHub is always appreciated.
In my opinion on my x86_64 machines with the latest Palemoon 28, it's barely imperceptible. Since I'm testing a lot of things I format 3 times a week and in every new installation foxPEP it's placed and tested with my machines. I hope to make time to test on my A1139 later this week and report right after it.
Have not had any issues with this. I really think TenFourFox should have this by default.
FoxPep+TenFourFox+ublock origin+Transmission+CorePlayer is a wonderful combination and really pushing these machines into this decade for me.
Here's Dr. Kaiser's comments on the project (or at least part of it) so far. Going off of that, it likely will not be the default without prior modification:
TenFourFox FPR23 for Intel available
Ken Cunningham figured out the build issues he was having with the Intel version and has updated TenFourFox for Intel systems to FPR23, now ...
tenfourfox.blogspot.com
No promises, but in time, you might not even have to use uBlock as the new Trimming Engine's database grows.
I tried FoxPEP on TEnFourFox on Mac 10.4.11, Tiger, and liked it. It is running on a 1 GHz Sawtooth (AGP) G4.
I would like to install FoxPEP on 10.5.8 on that machine but am not familiar with what to do.
It looks like release 1.7 might work. If there is a newer release that will still run on PowerPC, where would I find it?
Thanks.
I would like to install FoxPEP on 10.5.8 on that machine but am not familiar with what to do.
It looks like release 1.7 might work. If there is a newer release that will still run on PowerPC, where would I find it?
Thanks.
@wnlewis I don't understand; you are not familiar with installing 10.5.8, or with installing foxPEP? If it is the former, simply boot from the installer CD with "C" at the chime, or if it is the latter, the bundled Read Me details foxPEP's exact installation method and is very easy to follow.
Older versions have been made publicly available for the purpose of chronological timeline and development reference. For actual use, it is recommended to stay with the newest available release, which is currently Release 2.0 Ingenuity, found here. It typically receives an update every several months.
10.4 and 10.5 are not listed as supported OSes because they lack the ability to offload browser rendering to the GPU instead of the CPU, which as a result severely hampers the intended effect that foxPEP activates. However, it will continue to work irregardless of this as the patch also requires Firefox 45 and up, which current versions of TenFourFox meet the requirement of.
Essentially, it will still work fine on Tiger / Leopard and TFF, but not as well as it would on newer environments, which it was primarily designed for.
Hope I was helpful.
Older versions have been made publicly available for the purpose of chronological timeline and development reference. For actual use, it is recommended to stay with the newest available release, which is currently Release 2.0 Ingenuity, found here. It typically receives an update every several months.
10.4 and 10.5 are not listed as supported OSes because they lack the ability to offload browser rendering to the GPU instead of the CPU, which as a result severely hampers the intended effect that foxPEP activates. However, it will continue to work irregardless of this as the patch also requires Firefox 45 and up, which current versions of TenFourFox meet the requirement of.
Essentially, it will still work fine on Tiger / Leopard and TFF, but not as well as it would on newer environments, which it was primarily designed for.
Hope I was helpful.
Public Service Announcement:
All foxPEP-enabled TenFourFox installations will have no doubt recently encountered an issue with eBay where most images and CSS fail to load properly, leaving only an incorrectly-formatted HTML shell. This issue, through no fault of either foxPEP or TenFourFox alone, is due to a fault on eBay's end with the preference privacy.trackingprotection.enabled on older versions of Firefox, such as version 45.
If TenFourFox-based users of foxPEP wish to access eBay using the aforementioned browser environment, they will need to enter about:config and manually switch privacy.trackingprotection.enabled to false in order to restore site functionality. However, please be advised that doing this action may result in negated performance on other sites in return.
This issue does not affect AquaWeb, and (probably) does not affect Firefox versions higher than 45.
Thank you.
All foxPEP-enabled TenFourFox installations will have no doubt recently encountered an issue with eBay where most images and CSS fail to load properly, leaving only an incorrectly-formatted HTML shell. This issue, through no fault of either foxPEP or TenFourFox alone, is due to a fault on eBay's end with the preference privacy.trackingprotection.enabled on older versions of Firefox, such as version 45.
If TenFourFox-based users of foxPEP wish to access eBay using the aforementioned browser environment, they will need to enter about:config and manually switch privacy.trackingprotection.enabled to false in order to restore site functionality. However, please be advised that doing this action may result in negated performance on other sites in return.
This issue does not affect AquaWeb, and (probably) does not affect Firefox versions higher than 45.
Thank you.
Last edited: