France Abandons Plans To Strip Convicted Terrorists Of Citizenship

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ucfgrad93, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #1
    Stripping convicted terrorists seems like a no-brainer to me. Unfortunately, France can't even get this right.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ip-convicted-terrorists-of-french-citizenship
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
  3. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #3
    If I recall, can't become naturalized in France without your mother being French. So they would be talking about 2nd generation French born.
     
  4. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 601

    The-Real-Deal82

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    #4
    If they are born in France, it's difficult sending them to a country that has never been their residence. It wouldn't be fair on the other country either.

    This would be a bit like sending me to Northern Ireland because most of my family are from there, but I've never lived there.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Under international law, no country can make their citizens stateless.

    A country might have citizens who commit terrible crimes: Mass murderers; serial rapists; traitors; and domestic terrorists. But the way to deal with them is through the judicial and correctional system. Try them; send them to prison; execute them if that is what your legal system permits. But Jeffrey Dammer and Timothy McVeigh were born United States citizens. And they died as United States citizens. You can't just take away someone's citizenship because it seems expedient to do so.

    The reason International Law does not permit the stripping of citizenship, is that such a provision could be used to disenfranchise inconvenient minorities. If Canada (to take a purely hypothetical example) decided to strip French-speaking Canadians of their citizenship - where would such people go? If South Africa, as another hypothetical, stripped Afrikaans-speaking white people of their citizenship - where would those people go and live?
     
  6. adroit macrumors 6502

    adroit

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  7. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    Pretty sure the proposal only applied to dual citizens.
     
  8. bigchrisfgb macrumors 65816

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    #8
    The thing is if you exile a terrorist then where are they going to go? They are going to go to a country or area where they will be welcomed and potentially more powerful. If you keep them citizens then you can lock them up, or put them under a number of restrictions where there isn't much they can do, you also have the benefit of being able keep an eye on them far more easily.
     
  9. sodapop1 Suspended

    sodapop1

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    #9
    I suspect they're only trying to revoke citizenship in order for their judicial system to completely railroad these terrorists. Easier to prosecute people who have no rights under the law.
     
  10. jerwin macrumors 65816

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    #10
    That's right. You're not supposed to think about the complications that might arise. That's why it's called a no brainer.
     
  11. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #11
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    It would only have applied to dual citizenship, creating a two-tier system, which would be unconstitutional. France has a Constitution too. Anyway, you can't make people stateless under international law.
     
  13. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #13
    With the sole exception of Belarus, the death penalty has been abolished throughout Europe.
     
  14. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #14
    That's fine, they can bring it back.
     
  15. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #15
    I agree that I'm not sure that I understand why it is a legal issue, although I don't see the point of your gratuitous comment about France.

    As stated, it could only be applied to people with dual citizenship. In the not too distant past, it was pretty easy for dual citizens to lose one or the other of their citizenships. As far as I know, it doesn't violate international law to revoke one of the citizenships of someone who has dual citizenship. It does violate international law to revoke the citizenship of someone who has only one. It also may violate the law of a particular country in some circumstances (e.g. U.S.).

    Yes.

    I agree with you that it kind of makes no sense to deport an actual honest-to-goodness convicted terrorist to a country where they might be able to return from. I imagine that they were thinking more in terms of immigrants who concealed the whereabouts of, or otherwise passively aided a known terrorist who was a friend, neighbor, or relative and were thereby convicted of a terrorism charge. Are there very many such people? Most of the terrorists we have read about have actually been home grown or close to it (e.g. Francophones in Belgium).

    I'm not understanding what you are saying.

    Agreed. You can't make people stateless. But, you can revoke a citizenship of dual citizens. It used to happen all the time, because a lot of countries don't like people to have divided loyalties. In the U.S., it became much harder to do it after Afroyim v. Rusk.
     
  16. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #16
  17. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #17
    You can, you just have to prove you have integrated into the french community, and have lived in the country for 5 years conintuously.


    Or marry your way in.
     
  18. hiddenmarkov macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Serving in the foreign legion gets this as well as i recall.
     
  19. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #19
    Why?
     
  20. juanm, Apr 1, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016

    juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #20
    Can you please explain me what would exactly be achieved by stripping them of their citizenship?

    They hate their country, they want to kill their fellow citizens. Do you really think it would make them sad? They would see it as a badge of honor.
    They are willing to die for their prophet. Do you really think it would change anything?

    So in my opinion, it's just Hollande's knee-jerk law to appear strong, a very easy thing to do, instead of facing reality and taking real measures.
     

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