Freedom or.....

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #1
    Someone wrote this sentence in another thread:
    Which got me to thinking: do people think that freedom is the most important thing in the world and must be preserved at all costs or, occasionally, do we need to sacrifice some of our freedoms for the greater good? What if it was that black and white: either freedom to buy and spend and do whatever we want or the world ends. Certainly some would say yeah, I'll give up some freedoms to save the world. Or is a world without freedom, even just for a small amount of time, not worth living in? Seems like we used to know how to sacrifice for a small amount of time for the greater good (WWII rations and media blackouts, loose lips sinks ships...) now we seem to be the type that wouldn't give up our cars if it meant saving the entire human race....
     
  2. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #2
    [/thread]
     
  3. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #3
    I think freedom needs to be defined to answer that question.
     
  4. 184550 Guest

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    #4
    *Sigh* :rolleyes:

    I take it by now everyone is familiar with the historical context I will bring up to illustrate why the above is a silly misrepresentation of what Franklin actually meant?
     
  5. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #5
    What relevance does a 200 year old quote have to do with what one does or doesn't "deserve" in this day and age?

    "I believe there is one Supreme most perfect being. ... I believe He is pleased and delights in the happiness of those He has created; and since without virtue man can have no happiness in this world, I firmly believe He delights to see me virtuous." -Ben Franklin

    Ol' Ben must be right about everything.. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #6
    Lets go a little more off topic, what exactly did he mean? I guess I could google it but little lazy today...
     
  7. 184550 Guest

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    #7
    Google my username and the quote if you're feeling energized later.
     
  8. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #8
    Absolutely. Those who would sacrifice the future of the planet for a little temporary self-indulgence deserve neither life nor liberty.
     
  9. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #9
    Exactly, without defining freedom you can't answer this question. There's a lot of the stuff that the right wing defines as freedom that we'd be better off without, but that's not to say that freedom is bad.
     
  10. 0dev macrumors 68040

    0dev

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    #10
    Whenever governments around the world want to invade our privacy or slowly erode our rights, they will tell us it's for our protection. You can see this in all the anti-terror laws at the moment, for instance, and all the internet censorship systems and laws around the world. Hell, it even features in most dystopian fiction. And it might appear true at first, until this new power is abused.

    The question shouldn't be whether or not freedom needs to be given up, but whether or not it's being given up for the right reasons. I strongly believe that any government which claims it needs to remove freedom and rights from its citizens to provide "protection" is simply trying to be as totalitarian as possible. I do not believe that removing one's rights and freedoms creates more security either, merely the illusion of security to comfort the ill-informed.
     
  11. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #11
    In lack of a proper definition, why don't I just call it within my personal freedom to kill anyone who annoys me, and start workin'?


    On a serious note, I like the term "My freedom ends where yours begin". It at least stipulates limits.
     
  12. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #12
    Freedom itself is as much a human construct as any regulation or prohibition. I think because there are so many people on the planet, social order must be of primary importance.

    I would happily trade so called freedoms for some sort of purpose in life, of which I feel I have none. I would happily toil in a project that aimed to send our DNA to another solar system. I wouldn't be happy to trade freedom to fight in a war between our own peoples.
     
  13. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #13
    I am tired of living in a society where one evokes their rights and freedoms, yet fails to exercise the responsibility that comes with said rights and freedoms.

    And as said before, one's freedom cannot infringe on another's.
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    The 1%'ers could be swept aside in a heart-beat.

    It only requires the doing.

    If citizens have the stomach for the task.
     
  15. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #15
    As far as I can see the usual American definition of "freedom" is the ability to exploit others for your own gain,this is the very opposite of what freedom actually is.
     
  16. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #16
    Apparently, we've updated the ol' "Better dead than Red" phrase and replaced it with "Better dead than Green".


    Long live the American Dream! :rolleyes:
     
  17. EricNau Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    #17
    Freedom, frankly, is a concept we could do without. It's regularly abused, and means almost nothing as a result.

    Freedom can be a great thing, but it also resulted in World War II. Fact is, absolute freedom allows for very terrible things, and I see no reason that "freedom" should be seen as inherently valuable. Rather, it has many good results, and some bad. We should judge those results individually, not view them as necessarily good because they fall under the broad notion of "free."

    In my view we should focus our efforts elsewhere, on concepts with clear definitions. Freedom isn't always a good thing.
     
  18. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #18
    This is a very interesting thread, and I'll be following it. I see that several have the same view that I do: freedom is a good thing, but it needs to be kept in check.

    For instance, should I be free to mount massive speakers on the top of my house and blast a repeating track of "Friday" throughout the neighborhood? To tell me no is to take away one of my freedoms, but it my opinion, this sort of ordinance is needed. Hundreds of examples of such a thing, getting more and more extreme as the list goes on. But a majority of them are needed.

    The thought of absolute and total freedom is absurd. No one should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, even if that action doesn't directly impact another individual's life.

    I hear a lot of people scream about how "the government is taking away our freedoms!" What freedoms? Be specific. Don't just say "they want to regulate guns" or "all this terrorism legislation". Usually when I ask someone to be more specific about what freedoms they feel are being taken away, they clam up and get more angry.
     
  19. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #19
    Who is sacrificing the future of the planet? We are all on a mac discussion board, likely have tons of consumer devices and waste. Nearly everyone who makes above the average income level is a self indulgent consumer by poorer standards.

    Instead of trying to strip everyones freedoms maybe the liberals should show us the way by boycotting all corporations, turning off their electricity, and living on an fruit plantation with others that feel the same. You could even have a rock concert every few years where people get high and talk about changing the world and never actually do anything besides get high and talk about changing the world.

    ----------

    How about the patriot act which the dems were vehemently against under bush, but when the man they elect to represent them carries on with it I hear small whispers of discontent compared to the screams under Bush.
     
  20. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #20
    That's as good an excuse for doing nothing that I have read lately.

    Well crafted.
     
  21. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #21
    One bad quote doesn't discredit another idea.

    ----------

    Freedom is the only thing in this world that matters.
     
  22. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #22
    OK. So define it. Or do you mean, freedom with no bounds whatsoever?
     
  23. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #23
    So how do you define freedom?
     
  24. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #24
    The Duke.

     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #25
    So he doesn't believe in free speech?

    That's not very freedom loving. :rolleyes:
     

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