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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by pseudobrit, Dec 18, 2003.
Who would have thought California's budget problem was more complicated than a sound bite made it seem? I thought Da Governator was going to come in and clean up Sacramento! Guess that kind of tidy resolution only happens in the movies....
Great, so my car tax goes down and my school fees go up. But hey, Arnold can say he cut taxes, and that's all that counts these days.
Can you imagine what republicans would have said if Davis had pulled something like this?
If Davis pulled something like what?
GOP has been trying to get spending cut, and they are the only ones putting the brakes on for higher taxes in California.
Taxes are high in California, and you have had businesses leave California because of that. Not to mention, all the regulations imposed on businesses by California, its a wonder that Apple is still in California.
I remember during the rolling blackouts. No one was sure if their experiments was gonna run overnight, and they would need to start it back up. Made for slow work.
No, businesses leave California because of the high cost of living here. California actually ranks 19th in overall tax burden.. Doesn't matter how many times you claim that taxes here are out of the ordinary, it doesn't make it true!
Businesses make locational decisions based on much more then taxes, but that doesn't stop business and their lobbyists from pushing that story. Just another special interest trying to get what they want.
You say its 19th... I say its 4th.
Or if you exclude federal taxes, its 8th.
Why would anybody include Federal taxes in these figures? Does the state have any control whatsoever over the collection of Federal taxes? Why are fees excluded?
being a california resident, i didnt want to pay the high car tax anymore than the next guy. but i realized it was something that had to be done and paid the fees without complaining. now arnold steps in and it looks like i am going to get a refund check. i should be happy right? being a poor college student, i REALLY couldnt afford this increase, but I managed to do so. If i could do it, anyone can. So now i get a refund check.. but at what cost to my state? Important programs are getting cut, college students are getting screwed, the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer. What else is new. It was a sad day (and embarassing day i might add) when the governor of my state, that I elected, was recalled for bogus reasons, and a nazi (ok, nazis son) was put into place. Wake up people... get a clue and think before you act. Is that so much to ask?
If you are a CSU or UC student, hang on to that refund check, you will need it to pay the increased fees at school.
You have to include fees though. Many states hide lower taxation rates through the use of higher fees. Or do you not see paying for a building permit to be a tax on your home building?
The so-called "car tax" is in reality the "vehicle license fee." So if it didn't count as taxation in the first place, maybe cutting it didn't lower California's tax burden after all. I didn't realize it, but taxation is an existential subject, because reality is nothing more then a matter of the words we use to describe it. I tell you, I learn something new around here nearly every day.
thats awesome... didnt shwarzaneger specifically say he would NOT touch education under any circumstances? Way to start off arnie.. keep up the good work.
To everyone that voted for him... thanks a lot!
I don't understand you guys at all. In other threads you cry and cry about how bad the national deficit is under Bush. Arnold starts cutting some programs in order to pay for vital services and the only solution you can come up with is higher taxes. So basically what I am reading is that deficits are wrong and the only way to deal with them is not to cut spending but increase taxes.
And you wonder why the GOP is getting more recruits every day.
Ok, ok! We get it!! You think that the GOP is going to win the next set of elections in a landslide. You think the GOP is gaining members in droves and the Dems. are losing members even faster.
Its like you are engaging in your own little propoganda campaign.
Step 1: Find all the news favorable to the GOP and post the bits ad nauseam.
Step 2: Ignore all news unfavorable to the GOP.
Step 3: Find stupidity in the Democratic party and say "this is why the party is going down the crapper."
Step 4: Insert offhand remarks into all posts reiterating how your position is correct.
This apparent strategy of yours is quite insideous. A person who only looked to you as a source of information would get a very skewed perspective of the world. I liken the technique to Ann Coulter's. They are both disgusting.
Why don't you reply to the other part of my post. Just ignore the part that gets to you, since emotion gets into the way.
Do you favor that Arnold increase taxes? I can answer the for you and simply say yes you do.
Please define "vital services." Where does education stand next to your "vital services?"
I may be wasting my time trying to argue a nuanced point with you (I hope that reinforces your opinion of liberals as elitest snobs ), but it isn't a binary decision. It doesn't have to be: cut services or raise taxes.
California was ground zero for the dot com bubble bursting. Its economy was hit hard by the events of the last 5 years. This contributed to the state's financial problems. Therefore rebuilding business in the state might lead to long-term benefits to the state's finances. This is but one example of an area that can be explored to acheive long term benefits.
Cuts in services (esp. education) may actually have a long-term negative effect on the state economy. It isn't clear cut that they will, but I share others concerns that the cuts are being made in the wrong area and that the idea of cutting taxes is even further off the mark.
I did reply to you. [see above]
The reason I responded to that particular remark in your post is that the remark is designed to mislead and incite emotion. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and only furthers your own twisted agenda.
Given the nature of this topic (ie. cutting services targetting the poor), I could pepper my posts with offhanded remarks about conservatives lack of compassion, their overwhelming greed and desire to help big business, how if they aren't careful they will lose the next election big time, etc., etc., etc. But I don't. Why? Because its offtopic. Because its disingenuous. Because its a stereotype. Because its propoganda without basis in statistics or fact.
I take issue with your tactics. I cannot pass up the opportunity to comment on them.
You have much more time than I and you type much faster.
I take it that education is close to your heart and there is nothing wrong with that. I do believe in education for it is the only way for someone to get ahead as far as I am concerned. Just because Arnold makes some small cuts does not mean the system will fall apart or that all conservative don't care about education.
It is hard to argue this issue, but from what I read in the paper this morning the cuts he made are minor and in areas that are not necessarily vital.
Personally I would rather have a policeman available instead of some obscure program in a department at some university getting the funds to do research in order to give some intern or graduate assistant a job for the summer.
Step 1, I don't have to look for it since I see it in the news everyday.
Step 2 I can not ignore bad news since I see it in the news everyday. You guys make sure I read it 2 times.
Step 3, I never said the Democratic party is stupid. I just pointed out that their message and method is not helping them.
Step 4, I do need to stop doing that. I am sorry.
If you don't want your car tax refund, I'll take it.
Why don't you apply your car tax refund to your college fee increase and call it a day?
I think we are mincing words here.
The Vehicle License Fee (VLF) is considered a property tax on cars. You can actually use the VLF portion of your car registration fee in your Form 1040 and deduct it. It might be called a Vehicle License Fee, but its a car tax, or a property tax on cars.
Tax increases require a supermajority in the California Legislature.
Haven't you been paying attention?
Republicans have never met a tax cut they did not like.
Democrats have never met a spending increase they did not like.
Dunno, but I like tax cuts, and I like spending cuts. Thats my money the government is taking for their spending. I know of better ways to spend my money than they do.
Actually, you state the facts but did not supply the numbers.
The problem in California has been diagnosed as a 28% increase in revenue (during the dot com bubble), and a 36% increase in spending. Even if the dot com bubble did not burst, the 36% increase in spending would have caught up with us.
With the dot com bust, its magnified even more.