G5 in January, Awesome G4s next week

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
Here's my little roadmap for Apple products (in this case, the eMac would likely stay just behind the iMac in terms of speed):

Mid-August:
- PowerMacs reach 1.33GHz
- 166MHz System Bus
- 333MHz DDR Memory

September:
- 1GHz PowerBook

October:
- iMacs reach 1GHz
- Bump to 133MHz system bus
- DDR implementation similar to Xserve
- iBooks reach 800MHz, still G3s
- Classic iMac discontinued

January:
- G5 announced (from IBM)
- Runs at speeds up to 1.5GHz
- 64-bit processing
- PowerBook bumped to 1.2GHz (still G4)
- DDR in the PowerBooks

February:
- iBook moved to G4 processor, no MHz jump

March:
- iMacs bumped to 1.2GHz

April:
- iBooks reach 1GHz
 

Hemingray

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2002
2,915
26
Ha ha haaa!
Do you really think Apple will release a brand new G4 this time around only to release a second brand new PowerMac come January? Seems a litle questionable to me... but if that's the case, I'm not complaining. :) (But a lotta people who who will have just bought this upcoming G4 will be...)
 

ibookin'

macrumors 65816
Jul 7, 2002
1,164
0
Los Angeles, CA
If this is true I can't wait. Getting ready to buy my first desktop Mac and I hope it's a good one. I'm really waiting to buy one that's faster than my AMD Athlon 1700+ with 768MB DDR Ram. Come on Apple, show me those DDR Towers!
 

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
I do hope that my rough, imperfect, and optimistic road map works out. The only addition that I'd add, would be for July of 2003. At MWNY, I'd expect the iMac to be bumped to either 1.4GHz or 1.5GHz G4s and sport a faster system bus and memory (using the 7470 from Motorola).

My predictions for the notebook line are fairly shady. While the PowerBook will most definitely be receiving a faster processor within the next two months, it is difficult to guess on it's potential for DDR memory. The iBook line is even more difficult to predict, as the 750FX G3 that is currently used supports both DDR and faster system buses. However, it appears as though the G3 is nearing the end of its life. It's confusing; I can't begin to imagine the frustration for those making the decisions on product announcements.

Whatever the case, I'm fairly confident we'll see the G5 at either MWSF or in March at the convention then (I can't recall its name).
 

Haberdasher

macrumors regular
Jul 24, 2002
142
0
Los Angeles, CA
Weird, but plausible

It seems odd of Apple to introduce two revamped lines of G4/G5 within 6 months of each other, but I think it's likely. They probably feel just as eager to get out a new product line as we are to buy it. :D

I read (forgive me for saying this-somewhere I can't remember) they may only be releasing these G4s to satisfy Motorola, since Motorola worked so hard on them :)rolleyes: ) and they don't want all the effort that went into them to be wasted by jumping right to a G5.

Since most people who buy Apple aren't fanatics like us on these forums, they probably won't know the G5s are coming, and will buy right up a new G4.
 

kwajo.com

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2002
895
0
Bay of Fundy
while I like what you have to say, and it makes sense (except I take issue with G5 in january), it upsets me. The speed increases are a good thing and are neede, it is just that I will be unhappy if my brand new 800 iMac bought this month becomes old two months later (I knew the iMac was due for a update when I bought, I just couldn't hold out any longer) good road map BTW
 

iJon

macrumors 604
Feb 7, 2002
6,566
152
that would be nice but doubtful. i think we are getting ahead of ourselves.

iJon
 

GPTurismo

macrumors 6502
May 4, 2001
275
0
Montgomery, AL USA
I think there will be two pro lines next year to early 2004. The top tier 5000+ dollar machines will be 64 bit CPU's, and they will be selling 1.8 + gigahertz g4's for 2200 + dollars.

They can't just dump the G5 or whatever out there. they have to ease it in, mainly due to new archetecture, and cost. ^_^
 

password

macrumors newbie
Jul 25, 2002
1
0
The IBM POWER4 based chips are a long way away. Didn't we hear something about the Motorola G5 last Oct at the same conference? And the Oct before that?

Same with AMD's Hammer.

And the Digital/Compaq/HP EV7 and EV8 Alpha chips, and we all know the EV8 is never going to come out now.

IBM powered Apple desktops are atleast a full year away :(

But things aren't all bad, the new G4s that are rumored from Motorola sound good with DDR 333 and an on chip memory controller. Did these also have a longer pipeline? I forgot already.
 

dongmin

macrumors 68000
Jan 3, 2002
1,708
0
Definitely no G5 come January. They're not gonna introduce a brand spanking new chip 4.5 months after they release a new case + new mobo + new memory. Not gonna happen.

And I don't see Apple moving the iMacs to DDR anytime soon, definitely not by October. Even MWSF may be optimistic. I'd say the iMacs are bumped up to 900+/- come October and 1 ghz at the MWSF.

I hate to be the contrarian here but overall I'd say you're too optimistic. Personally I'd be happy with 2.0 ghz G5s being introduced next summer which is probalby when I'll buy my next Mac.
 

merges

macrumors member
Jul 11, 2002
86
0
i think realistically the G5 is at least a year to a year and half away, or longer. buy a good g4 and enjoy it! you can play LAGS perpetually and never get anything done... :)
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Originally posted by password
The IBM POWER4 based chips are a long way away. Didn't we hear something about the Motorola G5 last Oct at the same conference? And the Oct before that?
Well, IBM announced the 750FX Sahara chip that's been used in the iBook since last spring at last October's Microprocessor's Forum. And it came out even before that. Unlike Motorola, IBM tends to actually have their **** together. :)

I don't think new G5s in January is that unrealistic. If not January, then sometime in Q1.

Alex
 

groovebuster

macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2002
1,216
40
3rd rock from the sun...
So why no G5 soon?

Guys... who says that the G5 would have to be necessarily in all pro macs right away? I am pretty sure that a G5 based system would be way more expensive in the beginning than the macs sold so far.

So what I expect is that the G5 high end system will be just an addition to the current line up of G4s for at least 6 months after it's release, targeted at users who really need all the power they can get and don't mind to pay about 7.500$ for the basic version of a workstation.

I presume that PoweMac G4s and PowerMac G5s will co-exist for quite a while and as soon as the G5 systems will be producable more cost-effective, they will be adopted for the "lower" pro macs and even later also for the iMacs (whenever that will be).

So don't expect all PowerMacs going G5 right away...

groovebuster
 

groovebuster

macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2002
1,216
40
3rd rock from the sun...
A german article states, that the vector unit in the IBM chip will NOT(!!!!!) be Altivec-compatible, but can emulate Altivec instructions.

So the new processor apperas in a new light then, it's questionable if it will be used in the given design in a Mac. It would be weird if Altivec would be just emulated and not run native anymore. A lot of the speed advantages would be burned by the emulation then...

Here is the link:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/as-09.08.02-000/

groovebuster
 

ericb88

macrumors member
Apr 29, 2002
60
0
mroe realistically

We're going to see kick-ass G4's any day now, bluetooth in january, more speedbumped in april, then another speedbump to over 2ghz before we see G5's from ibm in mwsf 2004.
 

robbymoog

macrumors newbie
Aug 9, 2002
2
0
Boston, MA USA
If Apple has learned anything from the 95/96 MP's or the Cube, I hope it's that they can't expect their pro market to be absurdly rich. There will be no $5000 mac tower. Definitely no $7500 tower.
 

bokdol

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
890
30
VA
well here's my 2 cents.

1 ghz g4
dual 1 ghz g4
1.5 ghz g5
dual 1.5 ghz g5

i figure all this talk about how the g4 tops out at 1 ghz. then they have to move to a new chip then.:D
but i think i am dreaming
 

alex_ant

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2002
2,473
0
All up in your bidness
Re: So why no G5 soon?

Originally posted by groovebuster
Guys... who says that the G5 would have to be necessarily in all pro macs right away? I am pretty sure that a G5 based system would be way more expensive in the beginning than the macs sold so far.

The Power Mac currently is way overpriced. Even if this new G5 chip cost $800 a pop (an absurdly high estimate), I wouldn't be surprised if the prices of the systems didn't change at all.

I think everyone is overestimating what this new chip will cost. A chip designed for "workstations and low-end servers" is not going to cost $1000 or anywhere near that.
So what I expect is that the G5 high end system will be just an addition to the current line up of G4s for at least 6 months after it's release, targeted at users who really need all the power they can get and don't mind to pay about 7.500$ for the basic version of a workstation.
I don't think Apple would want to do this - people would see the G5 on the high end of the price spectrum, and knowing that the G4 = slow while the G5 = fast, they would probably wait for the G5 to drop in price and not buy any G4s. I predict that the complete Power Mac lineup will be all G5s in less than 9 months, and the changeover will happen suddenly.

Alex
 

Haberdasher

macrumors regular
Jul 24, 2002
142
0
Los Angeles, CA
Conflicting dates may not conflict

Just a thought...what if Apple announced new PwrMac G4s this Tuesday, allowing time for pre-orders, but didn't ship until Jaguar did, enabling them to include it on every machine? That would be pretty cool. :D
 

Cappy

macrumors 6502
May 29, 2002
388
2
Originally posted by robbymoog
If Apple has learned anything from the 95/96 MP's or the Cube, I hope it's that they can't expect their pro market to be absurdly rich. There will be no $5000 mac tower. Definitely no $7500 tower.
Actually during the days of the 95/85/7500 models they couldn't keep up with demand. They went down the toilet on all of the low end Powermac and performas that they were trying to move through Best Buy and such. The market has changed since those days so some of the pricing points have changed but not terribly so. Remember the thing Apple likes to do is aim at specific pricing points for their markets and then add in extras on top of the basics. This is getting tougher for them to do since other manufacturers are now including things like firewire.

The Cube had to have been a personal decision and not a business decision by someone(s). The idea to have a monitorless imac was right but misguided with the wrong market in mind. This is still an area that Apple could capitalize on if they bothered to try. One item to point out in defense of Apple on the Cube though was that no one was expecting the economy to tank like it did which was about the same time. Had they known that they might have reconsidered it.
 

i_wolf

macrumors regular
Jul 17, 2002
136
0
I disagree but then again i'm a newbie. As far as i am concerned with what i know happens PC side i reckon that
1) There is too close a relationship currently between iMac and PMac. Thinking logically this must be hurtin apples's creative market.
2) Windows XP .... and microsoft and intel and AMD etc... (i do not like them except for AMD) will and are trying to attack the creative market that was traditionally owned by apple e.g. photoshop market. If apple doesn't push their nose out the door now with ew technology they could find themselves loosing a significant market share to Dell Intels running Linux. Where i work part time... they just bought in 14 new Dell workstations running Red Hat Linux instead of new apple towers which they were replacing... reason for this..... boss wanted up to date hardware and despite my encouraging him to go apple it made "no logical sense " to him...
3) Apple have pledged to go after other markets such as 3d modelling etc... they have Maya (fantastic) at the moment... but... in all honesty they do not have comparable hardware to the PC side of the fence to run this app on.
4) The pc side is advancing very quickly to 64 bit processor and the speeds of 32 bit processors are progressing extremely fast.... Moores law does not seam to apply to apple..... or to be fair to Motorola!
5) Apple is currently targeting PC folk to switch. Perhaps that is why we are seeing great apps like MAYA showing up on OS X. Unfortunately the people 'switching' from pc to mac will be comparing, how the speed of these professional apps compare to their prior PC version. In maya's case the PC version is supposedly substantially faster with single AMD XP2200+ compared to a dual G4. Imagine what a PC switcher would think if moving from a dual AMD to a dual g4 with MAYA. it would not look good. I am sure that there are other significant apps that need more power also. A speed bump and DDR would not be sufficient to close the gap with the X86 platform which is growing by the month.
6) It seams like typical corporate strategy apple is playing .... the past 8 months have allowed them to sell off old stock.
7) It is unlike apple to ignore a product as long as they have without releasing a new product. Power mac has been ignored for last 8 months.
8) Historically the Power Macs use a newer generation processor than the Imac.
9) Apple is aware of all this.

Finally just because we hear about a new 'G5' type processor from IBM now does not mean that apple has only been made aware of this now.... its likely that they have been prepping for a launch since last year
Again with the PC side moving to 64bit and gaining hype for 64bit computing "Opteron", "Itanium 2". For advertising sake apple need to get a 64bit part out the door ASAP.
Again this is just my two cents worth...... but i think it would be a financial disaster to the PowerMac line (which is extremely important to apple) for them Not to introduce a new G5 line sooner than later. I would be fairly confident that we hear an announcement before the end of the month about the IBM Power 4 derivative in a new G5 powermac. That pic with the massive heatsink was fairly telling. Coupled with the fact that apple would be highly aware of all of the points that i made above and would want to rectify many of them. The most logical thing is that with in next two months, possibly launched at Mac World Paris in October there will be a G5. It seams like its a good time to jump on the apple bandwagon. Apologies for the length of this post, thanks for reading. And educate me where necessary i dont claim to be gospel!,
Regards to all of you,
i_wolf


:D

P.S. don't forget that apple Australia were on their website "welcoming visitors to see their newest technology" i think in september..... hmmmmmmmm ... pst.....(whisper)...g5.....
 

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
i_wolf, you've got a few good points.

Heck, the new G4s that are rumored might be reserved for the iMacs at a later date.

At the same time, I hate to be optimistic.
 
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