Ok, Ok, There is so much speculation on the G5 that it is making my head spin. I would like to know if anybody knows anything concrete on the G5? Thanks for the info.
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G5: Once and for all
- Thread starter MacManiac1224
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g5 facts
Well, we all know that Apple is pretty good at keeping information close to them and spreading rumors that confuse.
All that we know is that motorolla is working on the MPC8540. Better known as the g5 chip to us macheads.
This chip is rumored to be for the next generation powermacs, but there is also heresay that the g5 processor is an imbedded processor used in networking hardware. So, there is more confusion for us all.
One rumor that I do believe is that the beige test boxes are out there. When the testing phase will end, I don't know. They tend to be six months long, so we can look for testing to be complete in June/July. Apple is also insisting that there is a little more left in the g4 line. Buying time? Maybe. I believe that Apple feels the pressure to release a product that can convert Wintel Power Users over to the MAC platform.
The G5 is coming. I am saving up all of my money over the next year to purchase one. The longer they wait, the more money I will have to spend. That is a positive approach to waiting.
now, hurry up with my waffle.
Well, we all know that Apple is pretty good at keeping information close to them and spreading rumors that confuse.
All that we know is that motorolla is working on the MPC8540. Better known as the g5 chip to us macheads.
This chip is rumored to be for the next generation powermacs, but there is also heresay that the g5 processor is an imbedded processor used in networking hardware. So, there is more confusion for us all.
One rumor that I do believe is that the beige test boxes are out there. When the testing phase will end, I don't know. They tend to be six months long, so we can look for testing to be complete in June/July. Apple is also insisting that there is a little more left in the g4 line. Buying time? Maybe. I believe that Apple feels the pressure to release a product that can convert Wintel Power Users over to the MAC platform.
The G5 is coming. I am saving up all of my money over the next year to purchase one. The longer they wait, the more money I will have to spend. That is a positive approach to waiting.
now, hurry up with my waffle.
It seems to me that it is going to be released at New York or San Francisco.
I hope its the first rather than the latter but I don't really mind. San Francisco would be better if its a better product but NY is fine for me.
Ensign
I hope its the first rather than the latter but I don't really mind. San Francisco would be better if its a better product but NY is fine for me.
Ensign
It will happen, Apple realeased the iMac AFTER the Powermac G3 was at it's end NOW The iMac has a G4 so that means the G5 has to be on its way. I think that as soon as and the Powermac G5 comes out the iMac will have a speed boost to 1ghZ and the Powermac dual 2ghZ G5
if you have learned anything in the past few years, i wish it would have been that precedence means nothing when dealing with Jobs and Apple.
Re: g5 facts
This is supposed to be a FACT thread, right?
1. Motorola has announced prototype production of G5 chips. They are therefore not vaporware.
2. Motorola has announced first production will go to Cisco. Therefore macheads should watch CISCO news for when these chips are integrated into their products for guidance on when to expect the more complicated and labor intensive mac CPU products to include them.
3. Besides technical limitations Apple has seemed to be a bit behind the curce. For geeks this is unacceptable behavior. Of course!. But for the business users there is a BENEFIT to buying "trailing edge" technology. It is tested. It is proven in practice. It has seen market testing to se if it will last 5 months or 5 years. The cube was a grand example of an exceptionally great product, arguably "insanely great". It flopped on adoption due to actual price and perceived expansion issues and an external widget.
4. The G5 is real and will happen when the Apple product line is sufficiently mature (in marketing terms only) to justify it. Frankly with the imac G4 overselling its available supply now and in the forseeable future and the G4 selling like hotcakes (despite a slightly behind the curve main bus speed), there is no compelling MARKETING reason for G5.
5. Apple needs to gain market share in the server market where terms like processor density, power consumption and 2U make perfect sense. The G4 barely qualifies and is not targeted by Apple to this and the G5 is arguably tailored to this market.
6. Whenever Apple FINALLY does release a chip it is always slower and in shorter supply than Steve wabts. Steve is insane (hence the term insanely great). Rather than adjust the reality distortion fielf to reality and produce, say a million 1.2 Ghz G5 CPU's, he will hold out for 1.6 Ghz CPU's so they will be faster than P4's in the marketing literature. Consumers will thus suffer the waiting game and when the release event happens and a CPU crashes we will get to see him toss it off the stage like so much stale lettuce. It will be insanely entertaining,
7. The G5 and any bof the many other Apple product features are destined to come out. Late, expensive, buggy, but enough to keep the macheads well satisfied.
BUT if Apple wants to increase market share it neds to make machines for the trailing edge types. The very folks who are over the 5% market share hump of early adopters and need real CPU power Apple offers and they acknlowedge. Give them something THEY can use. Something tested and bulletproof. Something that offers the features they need (VPC, server, share inkjet printers over ethernet or parallel ports on the mac). It seems to a machead like blasphemy.
But blasphemy is exactly what 94% of the market is buying. In droves.
Rocketman
This is supposed to be a FACT thread, right?
1. Motorola has announced prototype production of G5 chips. They are therefore not vaporware.
2. Motorola has announced first production will go to Cisco. Therefore macheads should watch CISCO news for when these chips are integrated into their products for guidance on when to expect the more complicated and labor intensive mac CPU products to include them.
3. Besides technical limitations Apple has seemed to be a bit behind the curce. For geeks this is unacceptable behavior. Of course!. But for the business users there is a BENEFIT to buying "trailing edge" technology. It is tested. It is proven in practice. It has seen market testing to se if it will last 5 months or 5 years. The cube was a grand example of an exceptionally great product, arguably "insanely great". It flopped on adoption due to actual price and perceived expansion issues and an external widget.
4. The G5 is real and will happen when the Apple product line is sufficiently mature (in marketing terms only) to justify it. Frankly with the imac G4 overselling its available supply now and in the forseeable future and the G4 selling like hotcakes (despite a slightly behind the curve main bus speed), there is no compelling MARKETING reason for G5.
5. Apple needs to gain market share in the server market where terms like processor density, power consumption and 2U make perfect sense. The G4 barely qualifies and is not targeted by Apple to this and the G5 is arguably tailored to this market.
6. Whenever Apple FINALLY does release a chip it is always slower and in shorter supply than Steve wabts. Steve is insane (hence the term insanely great). Rather than adjust the reality distortion fielf to reality and produce, say a million 1.2 Ghz G5 CPU's, he will hold out for 1.6 Ghz CPU's so they will be faster than P4's in the marketing literature. Consumers will thus suffer the waiting game and when the release event happens and a CPU crashes we will get to see him toss it off the stage like so much stale lettuce. It will be insanely entertaining,
7. The G5 and any bof the many other Apple product features are destined to come out. Late, expensive, buggy, but enough to keep the macheads well satisfied.
BUT if Apple wants to increase market share it neds to make machines for the trailing edge types. The very folks who are over the 5% market share hump of early adopters and need real CPU power Apple offers and they acknlowedge. Give them something THEY can use. Something tested and bulletproof. Something that offers the features they need (VPC, server, share inkjet printers over ethernet or parallel ports on the mac). It seems to a machead like blasphemy.
But blasphemy is exactly what 94% of the market is buying. In droves.
Rocketman
Re: Re: g5 facts
You really take this seriously.
Apple will release an upgrade if they think it is needed, G4s are already the fastest desktop computer what else would you need.
You really take this seriously.
Apple will release an upgrade if they think it is needed, G4s are already the fastest desktop computer what else would you need.
http://www.cpuscorecard.com/
Apple could stand to try to trounce those PC's a bit more. They used to. But someone peddling really fast on a lower gear can pass you by if they pump hard enough.
(Added later: The first line about trouncing PC's is supposed to be a somewhat sarcastic remark to generate humor. Not an insult.)
Apple could stand to try to trounce those PC's a bit more. They used to. But someone peddling really fast on a lower gear can pass you by if they pump hard enough.
(Added later: The first line about trouncing PC's is supposed to be a somewhat sarcastic remark to generate humor. Not an insult.)
Re: G5: Once and for all
i am kind of happy with the concept of a dual 1 ghz g4 and i kind of think they can scale up and hold off the g5 until january 2003
but seriously, i would like to see a g5 sometime THIS year
i am kind of happy with the concept of a dual 1 ghz g4 and i kind of think they can scale up and hold off the g5 until january 2003
but seriously, i would like to see a g5 sometime THIS year
simple.....
Why people want the G5 is simple. The G4 has been out for 2 or 3 years. It has been from 350 MHz to 1 Ghz. TH THING IS GETTING TIRESOME, OBSOLETE, and BORING!!!! We need G5s just for the morale boost we'd get just from getting to the number 5 before intel......
Why people want the G5 is simple. The G4 has been out for 2 or 3 years. It has been from 350 MHz to 1 Ghz. TH THING IS GETTING TIRESOME, OBSOLETE, and BORING!!!! We need G5s just for the morale boost we'd get just from getting to the number 5 before intel......
about a month ago I tried to get a straight answer.
The bottom line is that there is no way to compare components without dis-assembling machines or custom-fabbing mobos.
There are too many architectural differences beyond chip design. Mobo speed and path-type, RAM speed and type, HD type,etc,etc.
The only real answer is that you should pick something capable of doing the work you want done in an amount of time your comfortable with on an OS that's easy for YOU to understand.
Manufacturers and "independant" testers don't handicap for architectural differences and task-specialization.
If you just want a reliable, stylish machine that's fairly maintenance free (what kind of car do you drive?) get a Mac. If you're a wirehead that likes to fiddle in his BIOS settings get a PC. Computers have gotten so fast that most people will NEVER notice the difference anyway.
The bottom line is that there is no way to compare components without dis-assembling machines or custom-fabbing mobos.
There are too many architectural differences beyond chip design. Mobo speed and path-type, RAM speed and type, HD type,etc,etc.
The only real answer is that you should pick something capable of doing the work you want done in an amount of time your comfortable with on an OS that's easy for YOU to understand.
Manufacturers and "independant" testers don't handicap for architectural differences and task-specialization.
If you just want a reliable, stylish machine that's fairly maintenance free (what kind of car do you drive?) get a Mac. If you're a wirehead that likes to fiddle in his BIOS settings get a PC. Computers have gotten so fast that most people will NEVER notice the difference anyway.
Oh, one more thought.
The average PC is replaced every 2-3 years.
The average Mac every 3-6 years.
The average PC is replaced every 2-3 years.
The average Mac every 3-6 years.
Has anyone seen the snow job over at spymac a.k.a. the "picture of a G5 in my boss's closet". Where does your boss work? In your chessey apartment's living room? I could have put that 5 on there in Photoshop 2. and under closer inspection you can actually see where the original 3 is because ITS A G3 YOSEMITE! By all means go to spymac.com and see it for yourself, read the story, it's all in good fun.
All the hype in this thread and others has gotten me very excited...I really want to believe that apple will come thru for its creative professionals again with something as huge as Final Cut Pro (2 years ago), and for me a dual 1.7ghz with a 400mhz (or Higher) system bus G5 would molify that want INMMEDIATELY.
I have to go on and say that alot of people here praise apple for their policy to release previuosly released proccesors and Sys. Buses but I know people who are really quite happy with their dual 1.7 Gig PCs with proper sys buses, simply becuse their computers are 3 to 4 times as fast as my dual P. 533 in render speeds alone... However, I love my mac and will never stop believing.
Go, Steve, go.
All the hype in this thread and others has gotten me very excited...I really want to believe that apple will come thru for its creative professionals again with something as huge as Final Cut Pro (2 years ago), and for me a dual 1.7ghz with a 400mhz (or Higher) system bus G5 would molify that want INMMEDIATELY.
I have to go on and say that alot of people here praise apple for their policy to release previuosly released proccesors and Sys. Buses but I know people who are really quite happy with their dual 1.7 Gig PCs with proper sys buses, simply becuse their computers are 3 to 4 times as fast as my dual P. 533 in render speeds alone... However, I love my mac and will never stop believing.
Go, Steve, go.
Stuff that has been said about the G5:
Manufacturer: Almost definetly Motorola. However, IBM is working on a multi core PPC chip according to their road map (i.e. that's fact not rumor). All the rumors have said it'll be a motorola chip though.
Clock Speed: >1GHz. That's a given, since the G4 is 1GHz. Most of the rumors put it in the 1.2-1.8 range. My guess is 1.25, 1.5, 1.75. Another popular one is 1.2, 1.4, 1.6.
Bus Speed: >= 266MHz. Possible 400 (like the P4) or 500 RapidIO.
RAM: DDR. Possible DDR333
Name: MPC85xx seems likely, except that Moto says that 8xxx means embedded. Therefore, I'm guessing it'll be the 75xx (a desktop version of the 85xx).
"bitness": either 32 or 32/64. Most of the rumors have said 64, but I'm starting to doubt that a little.
Manufacturing Process: .13 micron, SOI (same as the 7455)
Other assorted rumors: ATA100, ATA133 (I want it to have SerialATA), FireWire2 (Gigawire???), USB2, 3GIO, HyperTransport.
So if you just want the facts/obvious things:
>1GHz
DDR ram
.13 micron, SOI
>266MHz bus
My current guess:
1.25, 1.5, 1.75GHz
DDR333
.13 micron, SOI
500MHz RapidIO bus
Some HyperTransport stuff
ATA100/133
32 bit
Manufacturer: Almost definetly Motorola. However, IBM is working on a multi core PPC chip according to their road map (i.e. that's fact not rumor). All the rumors have said it'll be a motorola chip though.
Clock Speed: >1GHz. That's a given, since the G4 is 1GHz. Most of the rumors put it in the 1.2-1.8 range. My guess is 1.25, 1.5, 1.75. Another popular one is 1.2, 1.4, 1.6.
Bus Speed: >= 266MHz. Possible 400 (like the P4) or 500 RapidIO.
RAM: DDR. Possible DDR333
Name: MPC85xx seems likely, except that Moto says that 8xxx means embedded. Therefore, I'm guessing it'll be the 75xx (a desktop version of the 85xx).
"bitness": either 32 or 32/64. Most of the rumors have said 64, but I'm starting to doubt that a little.
Manufacturing Process: .13 micron, SOI (same as the 7455)
Other assorted rumors: ATA100, ATA133 (I want it to have SerialATA), FireWire2 (Gigawire???), USB2, 3GIO, HyperTransport.
So if you just want the facts/obvious things:
>1GHz
DDR ram
.13 micron, SOI
>266MHz bus
My current guess:
1.25, 1.5, 1.75GHz
DDR333
.13 micron, SOI
500MHz RapidIO bus
Some HyperTransport stuff
ATA100/133
32 bit
thanx.
That's what I get for selling Macs in an all Mac shop for a year. You begin to learn it's just like selling Mercedes or BMW. Those who want quality come to you to buy. Those who are simply curious do not. Those who need a pickup truck shouldn't buy a Merceses C coup.
Just keep in mind, it's not a critical decision for most people so you can just go with what you like. Play with a few Macs at Apple's stores (as I can't think of another vendor that is reliable about not getting kickbacks selling Dell). Play with a few PC's at Frys. It'll be a visceral preference, it always is.
That's what I get for selling Macs in an all Mac shop for a year. You begin to learn it's just like selling Mercedes or BMW. Those who want quality come to you to buy. Those who are simply curious do not. Those who need a pickup truck shouldn't buy a Merceses C coup.
Just keep in mind, it's not a critical decision for most people so you can just go with what you like. Play with a few Macs at Apple's stores (as I can't think of another vendor that is reliable about not getting kickbacks selling Dell). Play with a few PC's at Frys. It'll be a visceral preference, it always is.
Catfish_Man:
i agree with you most closely. i've been saying in other posts nearly the same thing. naturally, this is just a guess, but but i think that we have the most reasonable speculations and that i have fairly reasonable timeframe. whoever wanted the facts should look at the minimums you described.
g4 - MPC7470 - mwny july 2002
1.1, 1.2, 1.3 (something like that, prob. not to 1.3 though)
DDR266
.13 micron
266MHz bus
32 bit
g5 - MPC7500 - mwsf jan 2003
above 1.5 ghz
DDR333
.13 micron
500MHz RapidIO bus
32 bit (we probably won't see 64 bit until more programs are optomized for it).
i agree with you most closely. i've been saying in other posts nearly the same thing. naturally, this is just a guess, but but i think that we have the most reasonable speculations and that i have fairly reasonable timeframe. whoever wanted the facts should look at the minimums you described.
g4 - MPC7470 - mwny july 2002
1.1, 1.2, 1.3 (something like that, prob. not to 1.3 though)
DDR266
.13 micron
266MHz bus
32 bit
g5 - MPC7500 - mwsf jan 2003
above 1.5 ghz
DDR333
.13 micron
500MHz RapidIO bus
32 bit (we probably won't see 64 bit until more programs are optomized for it).
I'd noticed...
...that we had similar guesses. Nice to see someone else being logical
The 7470's clockspeed is more likely something like this:
1.064GHz (266*4)
1.197GHz (266*4.5)
1.330GHz (266*5)
In every processor I've heard of the clockspeed is either x *bus speed or
x.5*bus speed (x is any integer). That's why I think the G5 will have 250MHz gaps between each model of it (half the 500MHz bus). I think you're right on the timeframe, that's pretty much the only way they could release both the 7470 and 7500 by mwsf 2003, and if it comes out any later than that they're screwed.
...that we had similar guesses. Nice to see someone else being logical
The 7470's clockspeed is more likely something like this:
1.064GHz (266*4)
1.197GHz (266*4.5)
1.330GHz (266*5)
In every processor I've heard of the clockspeed is either x *bus speed or
x.5*bus speed (x is any integer). That's why I think the G5 will have 250MHz gaps between each model of it (half the 500MHz bus). I think you're right on the timeframe, that's pretty much the only way they could release both the 7470 and 7500 by mwsf 2003, and if it comes out any later than that they're screwed.
Re: Oh, one more thought.
cut those figures in half and you have it right for the modern day
some of the posters here replace even more often...we are a loyal lot and we really really really show it with out wallet and very often buy macs way more than we need...in one year i bought three macs and an old apple for fun
why? becuase they are made by apple inc
Originally posted by mischief
The average PC is replaced every 2-3 years.
The average Mac every 3-6 years.
cut those figures in half and you have it right for the modern day
some of the posters here replace even more often...we are a loyal lot and we really really really show it with out wallet and very often buy macs way more than we need...in one year i bought three macs and an old apple for fun
why? becuase they are made by apple inc
Just a thought
Everyone seems to want new and better stuff, does this mean that Apple does not make good enough products for the consumers.
The iPod, the amazingly good peice of hardware was amazing to come from a computer manufacturer that had made already a next generation of computing.
The G4 500mhz was amazingly fast when it was put up to a 1Ghz pentium, then they doubled it by going dual, then doubled it more by producing 1Ghz then doubled it to make it a dual 1Ghz.
The iMac, a revolutionary peice of furniture, what ellse do I need to say.
Please don't hold back on sending threatning letters as long as you attach fruits and vegetables.
Everyone seems to want new and better stuff, does this mean that Apple does not make good enough products for the consumers.
The iPod, the amazingly good peice of hardware was amazing to come from a computer manufacturer that had made already a next generation of computing.
The G4 500mhz was amazingly fast when it was put up to a 1Ghz pentium, then they doubled it by going dual, then doubled it more by producing 1Ghz then doubled it to make it a dual 1Ghz.
The iMac, a revolutionary peice of furniture, what ellse do I need to say.
Please don't hold back on sending threatning letters as long as you attach fruits and vegetables.
Just being a bit picky on bus speed here....
actually it's more like this:
((100/3)*4) = 266.66666667 (133 Mhz SDRAM)
((100/3)*4) * 2 = 133.33333333 (266Mhz DDR)
so if we've go from the current 1Ghz G4 upwards and assume that as now the multiplier can only be incremented in steps of 0.5 it would look something like this:
with SDRAM :
((100/3)*4) * 7.5 = 1.0 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 8 = 1.066 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 9 = 1.2 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 10 = 1.333 GHz
Pointless I know. We won't know till they're out what speeds they are but seeing as someone's managed to get the G4 up to 1.2 Ghz I'd guess the G5 or the G4 with DDR support should look something like this:
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 4.5 = 1.2 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 5 = 1.333 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 5.5 = 1.466 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 6 = 1.6 GHz
As far as I know the multiplyer is maxed out at 10 x so if apple don't get faster chips from motorola with a 266Mhz FSB we'll be stuck at 1.333Ghz for a while when we get there.
actually it's more like this:
((100/3)*4) = 266.66666667 (133 Mhz SDRAM)
((100/3)*4) * 2 = 133.33333333 (266Mhz DDR)
so if we've go from the current 1Ghz G4 upwards and assume that as now the multiplier can only be incremented in steps of 0.5 it would look something like this:
with SDRAM :
((100/3)*4) * 7.5 = 1.0 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 8 = 1.066 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 9 = 1.2 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 10 = 1.333 GHz
Pointless I know. We won't know till they're out what speeds they are but seeing as someone's managed to get the G4 up to 1.2 Ghz I'd guess the G5 or the G4 with DDR support should look something like this:
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 4.5 = 1.2 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 5 = 1.333 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 5.5 = 1.466 GHz
((100/3)*4) * 2 * 6 = 1.6 GHz
As far as I know the multiplyer is maxed out at 10 x so if apple don't get faster chips from motorola with a 266Mhz FSB we'll be stuck at 1.333Ghz for a while when we get there.