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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by solvs, Dec 11, 2007.
This isn't the first such story either.
I don't think anyone's surprised. This is Big Dick's former company after all.
Sad- they better get prosecuted to the fullest extent.
Thats funny, this is the first time I've heard the gang rape halliburton story.
Not surprised? Anyone should be surprised. If the story is true its terrible. Your comment about "Big Dick's former company" is in very poor taste in regards to the content of the story.
Halliburton itself is offensive and in poor taste. That was the reason for my comment. FYI- I wasn't trying to be funny at all. That was the point.
Is there anything that can be done? Or are these guys immune from prosecution?
It looks like they are from that loophole.
A 22 year old woman with a job as a civilian in a war zone located in the Middle East? Something about her even being there stinks to high heaven.
So she was asking for it?
Funny you didn't think that about Bush's choice to run the Iraqi stock market...
Why does that not surprise me?
Wasn't there a story just recently of how State Department people were being made to go to Iraq whether they liked it or not? Are they not civilians? Do you think that stinks too? Just what the hell are you implying?
Why? She has as much right to be there as a man, and Haliburton should suspend the staff in question, while a full investigation takes place.
Were they 22 year old women? They put interns at the front of the line or something? What are you saying?
I challenge anyone to pick ANY 22 year old girl and get some civilian contractor to send her into that situation escorted by security or not. Not going to happen.
As for the state department, unless their job descriptions have changed greatly in the past couple weeks, they aren't standing around the location where this gal supposedly was.
Well, the burden of proof is on her to corroberate her story. Good luck to her.
I challenge anyone to pick ANY 22 year old boy and get some civilian contractor to send him into that situation escorted by security or not. Not going to happen.
Right? Or are you saying there is some fundamental difference between boys and girls that makes one suited for the rigors of combat, but not the other?
Besides, Bush was sending 24 year olds in to run the Baghdad stock exchange. Didn't hear you complaining about that...
I'm saying this:
It was in the Green Zone. Where else in Baghdad would the State Department stand around? And why are you referring to her as a "gal"? Are you trying to belittle her?
What a ridiculous stance! It is NOT up to her to prove anything. It is up to the authorities to investigate her allegation and find what evidence they can. You probably know this, but I suppose you think more similarly than you might admit to this charmer:
Mullah Swarmlord, eh? Who would have guessed?
The situation is unfortunate. All we can hope for is an efficient resolution and justice.
Oh, and someone in this thread is a *bit* callous. I hope you find someone, someday, that will love you and bake you cookies. You need them!
Of course he is. Unconsciously perhaps, but such is the nature of mysogeny.
Sounds like it.
So, what are you arguing here, that she wasn't actually at the KBR camp, or that she wasn't raped? Because, there is substantial evidence to prove that she was at the camp during that time, including documentation from an Army doctor who checked her out.
If you take the time to review the case documents you'll see that KBR and Haliburton aren't disputing that she was there, instead they're demanding arbitration (Haliburton is actually trying to refuse responsibility entirely.)
KBR had a 21-year-old girl working in the Green Zone, this is undisputed, what is disputed is whether she was raped and whether there was a conspiracy to cover it up.
You are arguing a red herring based on your own assumptions about KBR and contractors in the Green Zone.
They can't be due to the loopholes setup to let them get away with every other horrible thing we keep hearing the contractors over there are doing.
But not the first story about someone over there getting raped by contractors. Not to mention all the other things we've been hearing about that they can do and get away with because they can't be prosecuted. Either you haven't been paying attention, or you're trying to distract from the real issue here for some reason.
I would link you to "Photos Show Rape of Iraqi Women by US Occupation Forces" but the images are kinda graphic, so one can Google that if one would want to.
We should be, but we aren't, and the why should be obvious (see above, and I can post more if you really don't know).
Lots of kerfuffle, but nothing will come of it unless she wins a civil suit. Those responsible are protected, as are the higher ups still trying to cover it up. Same with those responsible for the things I mentioned above.
Really? This is what you're going with? And I see it gets better for you:
I don't know if you didn't read the article, or you're just trying to somehow excuse this, or what, but you do know there are women that age in the military right? And in support staff. It is happening, and did. Are you trying to somehow excuse what happened to her because she shouldn't have been there in the first place? You'd think she could feel safe among our own people, people we pay a ton of money to in order to protect others. People who should be held accountable for such things but aren't because people like you excuse it. Or are you actually saying not that she shouldn't have been there, but that she wasn't? Because, um, she was.
Actually they are, but if you RTFA you would see this was in '05.
You are a terrible, terrible person.
There won't be either. Things are set up to protect them, not help her. Nor will anything come of the attempted cover up. They might pay her hush money, or lose a civil case, but I suspect they'll spend more fighting her and trying to bury the story as they have been.
But the talking heads will likely blame the victim and either say she shouldn't have been there or that she wasn't, which as we see above, will work on a small amount of people who it seems will excuse anything away for the war they support.
If he did that, he wouldn't have been saying the ridiculous and awful, even for him, things he did.
Maybe he can tell me the silver lining I'm missing in this little cloud.
Haliburton can not do anything about this any more. They do not own KBR they spun the off a while ago and KBR is its own company.
While everyone bashing Swarmlord he does make some points. He never said anything about the lady being wrong. Now he is stating some very cold hard facts.
She has to prove she was raped and right now they do not have any proof. I do not see her winning because of that reason. It is her word verse their word and they out number her.
KBR/Haliburton never made any one go over their. It was completely optional. Now they did give them a huge pay increase in the form of hazard pay and all money they earn over their is completely Tax free.
Now lets look at some over facts. KBR is a construction company. Construction is a very heavily male dominated field. On top of that their would be even fewer women wanting to go to IRAQ just because it more of the male nature to take life risking things like that. Unlike the army where one woman would not be alone with out another near by and in a more control environment of reporting and checking in. She could easily of been the loan woman in the area. No one really keeping a huge eye on things. Personally I think it was a mistake allowing her to go over there because of the environment. the chances of her getting raped like she was are greatly increased in that area plus little other over site.
As of the government. It goes back to burden of proof. They do not have any. They made a mistake giving the rape kit back to KBR should of stayed in military hands and moved around that way. Which also explains why KBR hands are tied on this one. They fire the people they get sued for wrongful termination and have no proof to back their claim. It he said she said. They need hard evidences.
I might like to point out I think the guys are scum and need to be punished. I am just stating some facts.
Now, he's not. Rather he's arguing that she wasn't there.
That's not how this case should play out, it's not a matter of numbers, but rather evidence. If this really happened, we should be ashamed
And, not one wit of this matters. What matters is, was she raped? Was it covered up? Who was responsible? Everything else is just framing, but Haliburton/KBR had a duty to their employees to protect them. Everything else is just excuses.
Let me put it this way, if I ran the company and this happened on my watch I would have submitted to an official investigation while running my own in parallel. I would have made sure that evidence was protected and that decisions were made in a transparent manner, in order to protect the victim, witnesses and the company. If the evidence showed the women was raped, I would immediately dismiss those responsible and hand them over to US officials to be prosecuted in the United States for the offense. Anything else is a stupid, dangerous, and possibly criminal mistake.
Furthermore, the amount of legal loopholes that surround the contractors in Iraq is simply ridiculous, and some legal framework must be established in order to protect the employees. The fact that a women could have been gang-raped and yet the only way she can find justice is through is through the civil court system is utterly outrageous.
Which is the problem. They covered it up from the beginning. They had evidence, they have testimony, but they won't even launch an investigation. And all we can say is our hands are tied, because for some reason they don't seem to fall under any authority or oversight, other than their own (and not even that) which is in and of itself a problem we should be dealing with.
And for anyone else who wants to say she shouldn't have been there, I hope you really think about that comment, because she (as well as any other young woman there, some of whom have also been threatened) should be able to be there. Don't excuse the behavior, no matter what the situation, which is exactly what you're doing when you say they shouldn't be allowed to be in that situation. It was the fault of those who raped her, who should have been punished. Instead, to protect themselves, she was told to say nothing or be fired. Last I checked that was illegal, as well as being wrong, which it should be.
No, I'm not. I said that the scenario doesn't sound right to me given my experience living and working in the Middle East.
However, the burden of proof is on her whether anyone likes it or not. She better have saved some DNA or this isn't going anywhere.
Whatever experience you claim to have had in the Middle East is completely irrelevant, so why bring it up?
Your knowledge of legal process is as shallow as your humanity. I wonder if your attitude would be so smug if your own daughter had been raped instead of someone else's.
I'm not about to get in to any arguments, doesn't seem worth it, but after reading many posts in many threads Swarmlord I just have to say that you're quite a piece of work