Gay Families Are Poorer

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Mac'nCheese, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #1
  2. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #2
    Not that I disagree with the need for gay marriage (I am a firm supporter), but more out of curiosity, how does this jibe with oft-cited statistics that many gays are quite wealthy and even potentially wealthier than average as a group? Is it simply that there's more statistical spread (that there are more rich and more poor homosexuals than heterosexuals)?
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

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  4. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    This is one thing I disagree in. There are several gay couples doing just fine. Also, statistics can be biased if you only poll from an specific demographic in a specific area.

    I good example of statistic would be the ones in countries where gay marriage is allowed and couples have kids (not in the literal, but in the legal both parents) as like any Heterosexual couple.

    For instance, Spain, Mexico. Arguably on country is poorer than the other but you can still make a fair comparison there. This shouldn't be used an excuse.

    Gay marriage needs to happen because of other issues, not this.
     
  5. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    How does one qualify "children" is that example?

    In Sweden, IVF was covered under govt insurance and I know a few gay couples that had it covered with no out of pocket cost. But in the states, how would one define a "child" of a gay couple?
     
  6. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    Probably as a person under 18 who the gay couple take care of....
     
  7. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

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    legal guardians?
     
  8. Mac'nCheese thread starter macrumors 68030

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    Yes. By birth or adoption.
     
  9. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

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    Right, typically one of them at least is a legal guardian, by birth/adoption/etc, and the other one may or may not be (which is one of the major issues raised in your OP).
     
  10. Apple OC, Oct 26, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011

    Apple OC macrumors 68040

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    I am sure there are poor gay families like any other families ... however the gay folks I know are quite well off ... I have not met any poor gay people but know plenty of straight families that are in need.

    Edit ... good point rdowns posted below ... adopting is not cheap
     
  11. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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  12. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

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    I actually don't believe the article (no primary source linked) or the methodlogy employed by the people conducting the study.
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

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    This is precisely one of the reasons we need it.
     
  14. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

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    or the wealth spread may be between gay families with kids vs gays without kids. Certainly there are gays raising kids, but what portion of the gay population does that represent?
     
  15. Iscariot macrumors 68030

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  16. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    What studies say this? I have heard people say this, but every single study I have seen on gay men show they make less than heterosexual men. I think this is one of those oft repeated "facts" that are not facts at all.

    http://joeclark.org/gaymoney/

     
  17. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Thanks -- that's very interesting. I hadn't really seen scholarly data on the question. The statistics I see thrown around come from, yes, as you say, marketing people.
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

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  19. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #19
    On the other hand, who is this "Joe Clark" guy anyway, and why does he write up his "scholarly findings" on his blog using language suggestive of someone with a paranoid axe to grind about the sinister "homosexual agenda?" It isn't just "this doesn't seem to be the case." It's "evil gay marketers are lying to you!" So far as I understand the concept of scholarly research this doesn't seem very scholarly to me.

    I'm not saying his "findings" are wrong, but why should I take this guy at his word?
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    My guess is that there are more lesbians with children than men with children. Women on average earn less, therefore, gay families are poorer.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

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    Nope- read Freestate's post.
     
  22. CalBoy macrumors 604

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    That link just doesn't jive well for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that everything on that page is this big. To me that screams tinfoil hat.

    However, beyond my superficial judgments of his blog, the simple fact is that these statistics are hard to come by. A lot of the agencies that collect income data only really started to pay attention to the LGBT crowd in the 90s, and most of them didn't start looking at LGBT families until the 2000s. That isn't enough time to get really solid info about durable income distribution.

    However, there are plenty of studies that suggest that gay men and lesbians attain much more education than their straight peers as a percentage of total individuals. This would suggest that they would also earn more since those factors are highly correlated for society as a whole.

    I can't find the exact link right now, but a year or two ago there was a large scale study that found that while lesbians were slightly more likely to have a child than a gay male couple, the figures weren't so out of ratio as to explain these claims.

    It's also not clear what impact pregnancy would have on a lesbian couple's income. Most of the income gender gap these days is explained by the fact that women frequently take time off for pregnancy, child care, elder care, etc. This causes them to lose experience years compared to their male counterparts. However, a lesbian couple would not go into "double" pregnancy every time, so the impact should be similar to the earning shift felt by a hetero couple.


    My take on the claims in this story, if they are in fact true, is that most likely what we're seeing is the impact of the marriage and fertility gap. Adoption, fertility procedures, estate planning, etc are all expensive, and gay couples have to spend a lot more money to reach parity with straight couples. Taxes are also punitive because gay couples can't use most of the tax benefits provided to straight families. Over time this will compound into net worth degradation and impact income in later years.
     
  23. mcrain macrumors 68000

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    #23
    If gay families are poorer, can anyone explain south beach and key west to me? There are many other examples, but those are pretty obvious. LeeK, there are neighborhoods in Chitown that are upscale and mainly because of the ghays, right?

    Trendy? Upscale? Urban? All the things your realtor tells you add value to a home... most of which happen to be lagging indicators of the gay population.

    Just saying.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Yes, but they aren't all expensive and most of the gay people who live in them are far from wealthy or even upper middle class. I live in one of the nicest neighborhoods in town, but it's not expensive at all.

    Many gay people have been displaced from Boystown because it got too expensive. It's a myth that most of us have a lot of money. We don't. We just know how to make things look good with what we've got.
     
  25. mcrain macrumors 68000

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    #25
    And then after you turned a pile of crap into a place worth living, the realtors and buyers start buying up any available property.
     

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