Gay-marriage debate takes new twist in Oregon

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 10, 2013
682
39,060
Criminal Mexi Midget

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
I'm OK with the religious exemptions, because it will prevent gay couples from giving potentially thousands of dollars to a bigoted piece of trash who is only doing it because the law tells them to. I'm also OK with gay couples who are turned down by a business using the power of social media to publicly shame the business and it's owners out of business and into oblivion.
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
The second part is NOT OK with me (I'd vote no), but I fail to see why that needs to be addressed at all.

Unless there is an Oregon law that makes currently makes it illegal to not provide wedding services to gay couples, then it's legal to do so and I don't know why they're asking.

And, once being gay becomes a Federally protected class (and I'm convinced it eventually will), any law Oregon puts on the books that makes it OK to deny wedding services to gay couples will be Federally illegal *anyway*.
 

PracticalMac

macrumors 68030
Jan 22, 2009
2,745
3,728
Houston, TX
I'm OK with the religious exemptions, because it will prevent gay couples from giving potentially thousands of dollars to a bigoted piece of trash who is only doing it because the law tells them to. I'm also OK with gay couples who are turned down by a business using the power of social media to publicly shame the business and it's owners out of business and into oblivion.
Good one.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,914
1,596
New England, USA
Exemptions are fine...as long as businesses can refuse to serve Jews, Catholics, African Americans, People With Funny Hair, Fat People, People With Funny Names, and anyone over the age of 62 years.

And I want it written into the law that the above named groups can be excluded.

Otherwise...no exemptions for retail or commercial vendors.
 

noisycats

macrumors 6502a
Jun 1, 2010
771
857
The 'ham. Alabama.
Nope. Doesn't work for me. If their services are offered to the public, then they need to be offered to the public.

What if the Pastafarians decided to refuse service to African Americans based on religion? All good? No, of course not.

Bigoted business owners should not be able to co-opt religion to hide their hate. They either need to adapt, evolve, lie, or be hauled to court.
 

tgara

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2012
993
2,733
Connecticut, USA
I'm OK with the religious exemptions, because it will prevent gay couples from giving potentially thousands of dollars to a bigoted piece of trash who is only doing it because the law tells them to. I'm also OK with gay couples who are turned down by a business using the power of social media to publicly shame the business and it's owners out of business and into oblivion.
Here we go again with the hatemongering. Or should I say intolerance for people with differing views. :rolleyes:
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Here we go again with the hatemongering. Or should I say intolerance for people with differing views. :rolleyes:
Eh? I don't see hatemongering in that post. Where is it? Maybe it could be argued that there is some against people who are against gay marriage, but people shouldn't have to tolerate intolerance.
 

noisycats

macrumors 6502a
Jun 1, 2010
771
857
The 'ham. Alabama.
Here we go again with the hatemongering. Or should I say intolerance for people with differing views. :rolleyes:
I'll own this one, in part. I am intolerant of anyone trying to deny equal rights or services.

Folks can have their "differing views", they just can't discriminate because of them.

I realize I should be a bigger person and hug my local hater, but I'm just prejudiced that way.
 

edk99

macrumors 6502a
May 27, 2009
701
710
FL
Great on the first part.

On the second part Government should have no business in telling a private business what customers they have to server. If I don't want to shoot your wedding or bake you a cake that is my choice as a business owner to make. What happens if that stupid law passes and I'm booked that weekend and I tell a gay couple that I can't do your wedding. Are they going to sue me? If so why do I need to go through the legal trouble of proving I was booked that weekend or I just wanted a weekend off.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
Great on the first part.

On the second part Government should have no business in telling a private business what customers they have to server. If I don't want to shoot your wedding or bake you a cake that is my choice as a business owner to make. What happens if that stupid law passes and I'm booked that weekend and I tell a gay couple that I can't do your wedding. Are they going to sue me? If so why do I need to go through the legal trouble of proving I was booked that weekend or I just wanted a weekend off.
So I suppose you support businesses being able to tell anyone of a certain gender or race to gtfo as well? Because otherwise you're not being consistent.
 

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
6,671
1,748
I don't even see why this is even being considered acceptable.
When it comes to something non-essential, I don't see a point in forcing specific individuals to provide service. The problem is that some of them will never agree. Religion basically says that they don't have to provide a reason, yet according to their religion that's okay. It's not possible to logically argue with anyone once the G word comes out, so why not support the businesses who are friendly to such a cause?

So I suppose you support businesses being able to tell anyone of a certain gender or race to gtfo as well? Because otherwise you're not being consistent.
I would prefer that people consider whether they really want to patronize a business that openly discriminates in that manner. My thoughts are different on employment issues and essential services like groceries or accommodations.
 

edk99

macrumors 6502a
May 27, 2009
701
710
FL
So I suppose you support businesses being able to tell anyone of a certain gender or race to gtfo as well? Because otherwise you're not being consistent.
10000% it is ok for a private business to deny you service without giving you a reason. Maybe I don't like people with nose rings or dudes with long hair or whatever reason I have it should be my choice to serve you or not.
 

bradl

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2008
4,006
11,823
10000% it is ok for a private business to deny you service with out giving you a reason. Maybe I don't like people with nose rings or dudes with long hair or whatever reason I have it should be my choice to serve you or not.
Okay.. then answer this situation.

It is okay for your business to deny you service without giving you a reason.

The American with Disabilities Act requires you to comply with different accommodations and provisions for people with disabilities.

A blind person walks in with their guide dog. followed by someone in a wheelchair. Do you refuse them service without reason for what you believe and run foul of the law, or allow the patron into your business, knowing that you will have a lawsuit on your hands if you tell them to leave?

Your response on this would be appreciated.

BL.
 

NewbieCanada

macrumors 68030
Oct 9, 2007
2,565
34
The second part is NOT OK with me (I'd vote no), but I fail to see why that needs to be addressed at all.

Unless there is an Oregon law that makes currently makes it illegal to not provide wedding services to gay couples, then it's legal to do so and I don't know why they're asking.
Of course there's a law in Oregon that makes it unlawful. Not just wedding services, of course. It's illegal to refuse gays service in a restaurant, or to rent to them.

Why, it's almost as if they're HUMAN.

----------

Here we go again with the hatemongering. Or should I say intolerance for people with differing views. :rolleyes:
Where on EARTH did you get the idea that people are supposed to tolerate ignorance, hate and bigotry?

You're entitled to your opinions. You're not entitled to have anyone consider you a decent human being.
 

tgara

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2012
993
2,733
Connecticut, USA
When it comes to something non-essential, I don't see a point in forcing specific individuals to provide service. The problem is that some of them will never agree. Religion basically says that they don't have to provide a reason, yet according to their religion that's okay. It's not possible to logically argue with anyone once the G word comes out, so why not support the businesses who are friendly to such a cause?



I would prefer that people consider whether they really want to patronize a business that openly discriminates in that manner. My thoughts are different on employment issues and essential services like groceries or accommodations.
This. This was the same thinking in the so-called common carrier cases from the last century.... when there was only ONE railroad or ONE hotel on the highway, they had to take people regardless of their prejudices or beliefs because there were no alternatives to choose from.

But where there are alternatives, in fact many alternatives in some cities, I don't see any problem with permitting people who hold a view based on their faith that marriage is between one man and one woman to not service customers that go against that.

----------

Okay.. then answer this situation.

It is okay for your business to deny you service without giving you a reason.

The American with Disabilities Act requires you to comply with different accommodations and provisions for people with disabilities.

A blind person walks in with their guide dog. followed by someone in a wheelchair. Do you refuse them service without reason for what you believe and run foul of the law, or allow the patron into your business, knowing that you will have a lawsuit on your hands if you tell them to leave?

Your response on this would be appreciated.

BL.
So you support slavery. Got it!

That's what you are proposing with this question, you realize that, right? Either take the customer and do the work or be punished.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
When it comes to something non-essential, I don't see a point in forcing specific individuals to provide service. The problem is that some of them will never agree. Religion basically says that they don't have to provide a reason, yet according to their religion that's okay. It's not possible to logically argue with anyone once the G word comes out, so why not support the businesses who are friendly to such a cause?



I would prefer that people consider whether they really want to patronize a business that openly discriminates in that manner. My thoughts are different on employment issues and essential services like groceries or accommodations.
And if there aren't any businesses friendly to their cause in the area they need business? Should they just not get whatever it is they wanted because somebody else doesn't see them as deserving for some reason?

10000% it is ok for a private business to deny you service without giving you a reason. Maybe I don't like people with nose rings or dudes with long hair or whatever reason I have it should be my choice to serve you or not.
You choose to have a nose ring, you choose to have long hair, you do not choose to be gay.

----------

This. This was the same thinking in the so-called common carrier cases from the last century.... when there was only ONE railroad or ONE hotel on the highway, they had to take people regardless of their prejudices or beliefs because there were no alternatives to choose from.

But where there are alternatives, in fact many alternatives in some cities, I don't see any problem with permitting people who hold a view based on their faith that marriage is between one man and one woman to not service customers that go against that.

----------



So you support slavery. Got it!

That's what you are proposing with this question, you realize that, right? Either take the customer and do the work or be punished.
Slavery? Really? That's what you're going with?
 

noisycats

macrumors 6502a
Jun 1, 2010
771
857
The 'ham. Alabama.
So you support slavery. Got it!

That's what you are proposing with this question, you realize that, right? Either take the customer and do the work or be punished.
That's the best you have? Performing your compensable talents, like you would for any other paying customer, only in this case peforming them for a paying homosexual, is slavery?

:rolleyes:
 

edk99

macrumors 6502a
May 27, 2009
701
710
FL
Okay.. then answer this situation.

It is okay for your business to deny you service without giving you a reason.

The American with Disabilities Act requires you to comply with different accommodations and provisions for people with disabilities.

A blind person walks in with their guide dog. followed by someone in a wheelchair. Do you refuse them service without reason for what you believe and run foul of the law, or allow the patron into your business, knowing that you will have a lawsuit on your hands if you tell them to leave?

Your response on this would be appreciated.

BL.
First off, if you have business where customers visit you like in this case a bakery or photo studio, yes you should be ADA compliant with accessibility to your business.

As a business owner I should have the right to provide you services or not. End of story.

Should a bar have the right to deny me a drink if they think I'm drunk? What happens if I haven't had a drink all day should I be able to sue them?
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
10000% it is ok for a private business to deny you service without giving you a reason. Maybe I don't like people with nose rings or dudes with long hair or whatever reason I have it should be my choice to serve you or not.
So you support slavery. Got it!
So you both think that the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Americans with Disabilities Act, etc are bad law? There should be no protected classes at all when it comes to publicly-accessible businesses? Wow...
 

lannister80

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2009
476
17
Chicagoland
First off, if you have business where customers visit you like in this case a bakery or photo studio, yes you should be ADA compliant with accessibility to your business.
Why? What if you think your religion says it's wrong to serve handicapped customers? Why would you provide those filthy scum with access??

Should a bar have the right to deny me a drink if they think I'm drunk? What happens if I haven't had a drink all day should I be able to sue them?
Drunks/not-drunks/people-who-need-a-drink aren't protected classes.

----------

What do you call forcing people to do work they would rather not do?
Protecting disadvantaged minority groups from discrimination, that's what.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
What do you call forcing people to do work they would rather not do?
Being part of society? It's not all about what YOU want sometimes. If you don't want to have to do things you don't want to do, go off and live in the middle of the woods. Then you don't have to conform to those pesky laws.