Gay Marriage vs. Polygamy

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Simgar988, May 15, 2012.

  1. Simgar988 macrumors 65816

    Simgar988

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    #1
    My dad brought this up during our debate. "If you support gay marriage, do you also support polygamy? What is the difference?"
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    What the hell does polygamy have to do with gay marriage? If your dad doesn't know the difference between the two, I suggest he crack open a dictionary.
     
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    I support both.

    I believe that consenting adults should have the freedom to associate with whomever they choose to associate.
     
  4. hafr macrumors 68030

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    #4
    I would ask him what the similarities are, since the question is too strange to even begin answering.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    Agreed. As long as polygamy is not used to subjugate women, I have no problem with it.
     
  6. werther macrumors regular

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    #6
    I think, obviously, he (the Dad) was going for the slippery slope argument. That is, if we legalize gay marriage what's to stop us from legalizing...yada yada yada.

    Of course, this is a logical fallacy as it in no way addresses the merits or societal impacts (negative or positive) of gay marriage itself.

    We legalized alcohol, but yet crack is still ilegal, why is that?

    edit: I don't mean to compare crack with polygamy, only the problem with the argument.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    I get that sense too. If gays, then why not polygamy, then why not children, then why not donkeys, etc.

    There is a clear dividing line IMO: human adulthood. The arrangements that human adults make to form relationships between other human adults should not be infringed unless unlawful activity is involved.

    As Lee said, polygamy should not involve the subjugation of women. However, women are sometimes subjugated and abused in monogamous relationships. It seems to me that the issue isn't how many spouses one has, but how one treats one's spouse regardless of their number. The same goes for children.
     
  8. chris200x9 macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    The difference the penis ratio.
     
  9. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    I have to admit, it does sound fun. :)
     
  11. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #11
    Agreed, who wouldn't want a chance at a gaggle of lesbians. ;) :D
     
  12. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #12
    Poly here, the two issues have little to do with one another though I support both.

    As I've stated many times in the past I couldn't give less of a crap about the tax perks, I mostly just want the legal recognition, hospital visitation rights and stuff like that, it bothers me that we can't get married.
     
  13. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #13
    The one doesn't automatically lead to the other. Personally I have no moral issue with either.

    The lawyer in me says gay marriage is very simple legally (add an addendum saying references to one sex also include the other), but polygmous marriage would pose some legal challenges like child custody in the event of divorce, inheritance rights etc. Now I'm NOT saying that is a reason not to do it, only a reason to properly think how it would work through carefully first.
     
  14. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #14
    The biggest difference is that there is not a huge, open polygamous community, supported by their friends, family, public figures and entertainers molding public opinion in favour of polygamy.

    There is no polygamy lobby, no polygamy pride parade. All there is are intensely creepy breakaway Mormon cults with old men marrying young teenage girls.

    Opponents of marriage equality like to pretend it doesn't actually exist anywhere. That way they can throw up all the scare tactics they want, without having to face the reality that they haven't come true anywhere that marriage is legal.

    But let's imagine for a moment that there was indeed a large, respectable group of polygamists wishing to marry. It still breaks down on numbers. John is married to Susan and Dora. Dora is married to John, Larry and Jennifer. Larry is married to John and Susan. The combinations and permutations of rights, inheritance, who is who's next of kin are simply too complex to deal with. Live with whoever you like. It's certainly none of my business or anyone else's. But one spouse at a time is all the rest of us can be expected to deal with.
     
  15. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #15
    I would imagine the common thread to being a contract amongst consenting adults to enter in whatever arrangement they want.
     
  16. mcman77 macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Poly = Many!

    So it means many wives for example. A man in a polygamy marriage can have 5 women.

    A gay marriage is marrying the same gender.

    BIG DIFFERENCE!
     
  17. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #17


    The problem with polygamy is the tendency for one partner to be a primary (see first wife) and a secondary, which creates an inherent inequality. Polyfidelitous relationships, while structurally complex, at least allows for equality between partners.

    Moreover, it makes more sense for the government to make a legal argument that two partners is advantageous, but that it doesn't care who those partners are in this limited legal framework.

    Is gaggle the collective noun?


    How about a coven? Or clowder?
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #18
    I think you made a number of good points.

    But this one I have to quibble with.

    I'll agree that they'd be more complex, but I doubt that they'd be too complex to deal with.

    I think we could find some way of figuring it out.

    ----------

    The ironic thing is that many think the healthiest marriages exist under these very conditions, where the man is dominant and the wife subservient.

    We don't bar couples from entering marriages when inherent inequalities exist in their relationship, so why would we require something different in a polygamous relationship?
     
  19. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #19
    http://poly-nyc.com/pride.html

    False

    I'm definitely not a mormon, or a man, or into teenagers.
     
  20. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #20

    Why couldn't polygamous marriages have gay and/or lesbian relationships in the marriage?


    Gaggle sounded like a funny word to use. :eek:
     
  21. citizenzen, May 15, 2012
    Last edited: May 15, 2012

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #21
    ... but I could dig having a couple of husbands.

    Was that where you were going with that?

    :D
     
  22. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #22
    The existence of one small event does not translate into a movement
     
  23. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #23
    Perhaps we could figure it out, but as a society we're not exactly known for going out of our way to fix things no one is asking us to fix. And it's not really up to us (those of us who aren't in polyamorous relationships) to figure it out. We need to be told what they want.

    Marriage equality didn't suddenly emerge full-blown as an issue a couple of years ago. It's pretty much the end of the gay-rights struggle, not the beginning, and comes after decades of protests, advocacy, education, etc. It involved people coming out to their families, friends and on the job, often at enormous personal cost. And not just a few, but thousands and millions of people, all around the world.

    How many people do you know living openly in a polyamorous relationship, who've spent time discussing with you the challenges they face?

    Society as a whole just doesn't go around figuring out solutions to things. When polyamorous people start demanding things, then and only then will society start figuring it out.
     
  24. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I generally agree with you here. We don't tend to find solutions until a problem actually exists. But once a problem exists I think we're quite capable of working things out ... especially in this realm. And we wouldn't be asking "society as a whole" to solve these problems, just the advocates, lawyers, courts and judges. I think they could manage it.
     
  25. KylePowers macrumors 68000

    KylePowers

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    #25
    I think this is a very interesting topic.

    I do have to inquire though as to what people believe is "the line"? Where do you draw it? Why do you draw it there? Who gets to draw it? Why do they get to draw it? Will it ever be fair to everyone? Isn't permitting one type of marriage and excluding other types prejudice? Is that morally correct? Why or why isn't it? Is that socially acceptable? Why or why not?

    We don't live in a utopic society, and unfortunately never will, so keeping the interest of everyone is difficult (i.e. impossible). I'd recommend everyone take a look at The Republic, Utopia, Looking Backward, and Ecotopia and see how Plato, Thomas More, Bellamy, and Callenbach address such difficult societal issues (among others of course). Pretty interesting stuff and I think you'd be surprised as to what sort of solutions they come up with and how they go about doing that. It really makes you think about how the U.S. is ran. Not that they're necessarily correct of course, but definitely some interesting reads.
     

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