Gays vs Christians

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by The Californian, May 4, 2009.

  1. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #1
    I have a friend that spends quite a bit of time focusing on the topic of homosexuality in the Church. He is a gay man, and while I don't talk to him all that often, when I see the stuff he posts on Facebook it makes me believe he is trying to justify life as a homosexual, and that he's trying to convince people that God is completely okay with a homosexual lifestyle. Now while this is a topic that I have found myself becoming more passionate about over the past several years, I also find it to be a subject that is focused way too much on in the Christian community. I see two groups of people in the Church when it comes to homosexuality ( these aren't exclusive groups that you must be part of one ... they are just the two major groups ) you either have the group that is very adamant that the mere act of having a homosexual thought will send you to hell and you need to be healed from this disease, and then there's the group that believes that Christians have homosexuality wrong and that you can live a gay life with a gay partner in the same way a straight person lives a life with a spouse and it's perfectly acceptable in Gods eyes. Now first of all I'm going to say that both of these groups are wrong biblically, and secondly I'm going to say that these people are missing out on the beauty of Jesus by spending so much time focusing on this one topic. Now that I've pissed off a couple of groups, I think I should explain myself.

    To the first group, the people that believe we should dig a huge pit to hell and throw all the gays in there and live happily ever after let me say that your misrepresentation of Christ is sickening to me. When I sit down and read about the life of Jesus ( which I must admit I don't do half as much as I should ) I see a man that loved unconditionally. I don't remember Him walking around telling people that His Father hated them because they were adulterers, or because they were liars or thieves ... I'm pretty sure I remember Him walking around telling people they needed to help those in need and feed and clothe the poor and take care of widows ... See, He was focused on what was important and what really changes people and heals the deep wounds that have scarred our hearts ... LOVE. Actually there's a verse that talks about this, and let me break it down for you. There were these guys in biblical times that were called scribes, think of them as journalists without agendas that would be killed if it was found out what they documented didn't happen or was a lie. Basically, their job was to write down history as it happened, study stuff that has happened and be completely accurate. So this scribe heard Jesus talking and recognized how true everything He was saying was and he wanted to know what the most important commandment of all the commandments was. Now he wasn't just talking about the 10 commandments, he was most likely talking about all 613 of the laws/commandments in the Pre-Jesus Bible ( Old Testament ), so out of all 613 which does Jesus choose? The two that sum it all up, the two that if you follow ... all the other ones will just happen anyway and they are "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength." ( Deuteronomy 6:5 ) and "... you shall love your neighbor as yourself ..." ( Leviticus 19:18 ), Jesus says these in Matthew 22:34-40. So what if your neighbor is an alcoholic? What if your neighbor commits adultery? And what if your neighbor is ... oh my ... GAY?? What should you do? Love them ... We need to put down the protest signs and stop trying to be God and send people to hell and start loving them. I've talked to several gay men whom have told me that if they could feel for a woman the way they feel for men they would do it in a second just to stop being harassed at the very least but so ultimately, from what I've been told so they can have a "normal" happy life. I put normal in quotation marks because none of us are normal. Basically us Christians need to stop trying to change people into something that is easier to love ... and just start loving them the way they are and let the Holy Spirit do any changes He wants to do in their life.

    Alright, for the second group of people that believe it's okay to live a gay lifestyle with a gay partner in the same way a straight person lives a life with their spouse you are just trying to fool yourself. If you have a relationship with Christ and have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you, you know that this is a lie ... I can say this because I have talked to so many gay Christian men and women that tell me how deep down they know this isn't the lifestyle God wants for them but they can't help but try to justify it by twisting scripture or even trying to get inside Gods head and convince themselves that God just wants them to be happy however they decide to live their life. Now I'm not going to get into all the typical "Adam and Steve" talk and how unnatural homosexuality is but I'll just break it down with some scripture just like I did for the other group, the reason I'm not gonna sit here and try to reason with this group is because from the conversations I've had with members of this group I've come to realize that they know the truth deep down but fight it. Basically ... I like to compare gay people to alcoholics ... I know, it makes no sense ... yet. See, there's all kinds of alcoholics in the church but no one ever gets on their case about having tendencies towards alcohol, only when they actually get drunk ... and when they start thinking of going to a bar or going and picking up some drinks at the supermarket I don't see Christians saying "Ooohhh my! You're going to hell for desiring alcohol", they actually commend them for not acting it out. See, God loves the sinner, hates the sin. He loves the alcoholic, hates the alcoholism ... He loves the homosexual, hates the act of homosexuality. The verse that I see twisted the most often is Leviticus 18:22 where homosexuals like to say that it's saying don't be with a man and a woman at the same time ... but to choose one. So while I used the NKJV for the earlier group because I don't think anyone will argue with what those verses really mean, I'm going to use the hebrew for this verse " וּבְכָל-בְּהֵמָה לֹא-תִתֵּן שְׁכָבְתְּךָ, לְטָמְאָה-בָהּ; וְאִשָּׁה, לֹא-תַעֲמֹד לִפְנֵי בְהֵמָה לְרִבְעָהּ--תֶּבֶל הוּא." - Leviticus 18:22. Which literally translated says "When sex with man as with woman: abomination is". I'm sorry it doesn't translate more smoothly, but I don't want anyone thinking I'm doing anything shady here. So I think that one is pretty obvious, but if I completely ignore that verse ... What about this one? "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." Romans 13:1. So since it is not legal to marry someone of your own gender, and sex outside of wedlock is either adultery ( sex between a married person and a person they are not married to ) or fornication ( sex between two unmarried people ) which are both sinful in Gods eyes according to many verses including Galatians 5:19 "Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, ..." it should be clear that the act of homosexual sex is sinful no matter what your thoughts are on Leviticus 18:22 are. Now why am I saying this? Because trying to justify the homosexual lifestyle is causing just as much dissension in the Church as the people who are saying all gays should be thrown into hell ... because it's just not true.

    So what's the truth? God loves us all, and He wants us to love Him and He wants us to treat eachother with love. I'm not gonna go all hippie and say we need to accept everyones lifestyle ... CAUSE WE DON'T! We need to accept eachother as brothers and sisters in Christ, and then we need to love the people that aren't Christians ... because that is what Jesus did. I never read of Jesus punching someone in the face because they didn't believe He was the Son of God ... He still loved them. I just think we need to stop getting all wrapped up in this whole I can live however I want, and I can judge you for how you're living, and we need to just start living out Gods love. Like I said, to love someone doesn't mean you have to accept their lifestyle ... Just them as a person. Trust me, once you start truly loving people ... You'll see a change in your perspective ... and trust me, I'm probably one of the people furthest from attaining this goal.
     
  2. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #2
    Do you follow all of the prohibitions in Leviticus?
     
  3. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #3
    Feel better? ;)

    Seriously though, I don't fall into either of your two hypothetical groups. I have read what some hard-line religious groups think and I have read what supporters of homosexuality think.

    My take - which is likely the same as that of other Christians, I suspect - is that it's not my place to pass a judgment; that's God's job. I'd rather just see people taking care of each other and doing the right thing in their various walks of life, and outside of that let each person live his/her own life.
     
  4. drewsof07 macrumors 68000

    drewsof07

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    #4
    Exactly, we should be focused on teaching people what God wants, not forcing them ourselves.
     
  5. Sky Blue Guest

    Sky Blue

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  6. ZiggyPastorius macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #6
  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #7
    Especially not wearing those clothes with a wool/linen mix - maybe that's a mistranslation of clothes made with animal/plant fibres - how can we be sure? And what about artificial fibres :eek:.

    Maybe we need to start a campaign against Gap on that :p.
     
  8. Beerfloat macrumors regular

    Beerfloat

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  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    I like to compare Christians to child molesters. I know it makes no sense, yet there it is...
     
  10. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #10
    Well there's your problem right there…
    See, I don't have a relationship with fictional characters.
    Much less feel myself possessed by some! :eek:

    I have a relationship with my partner.
    And it is no lie…

    So what are you on about?

    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Teh Don Ditty macrumors G4

    Teh Don Ditty

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    #11
    I'd like to nominate this for MR's post of the year award.
     
  12. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    I didn't know Yoda spoke in translated Hebrew. :D
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Haha! Wow, that was good!
     
  14. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #14
    Well, Google says:
    "Yet - not animal - let Scbtc, Ltmah - it; woman, not - Stand up before the beast foursome - the globe is. "
    Makes a whole lot more sense to me than the OP's translation.
     
  15. iGary Guest

    iGary

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  16. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #16
    the heart of the matter (in the context of Christianity) is sexual immorality. if you love someone, such as a spouse, you wouldn't have sex with someone else. period. having sex with multiple people is what the sin is, hetero or homosexual, it doesn't matter. i've always been adamant that straight people are guilty of this more than any other group, simply because there are more of them. anyone who has cheated on their husband/wife or had sex with anyone but their life partner is committing THE EXACT SAME sin.
     
  17. themoonisdown09 macrumors 601

    themoonisdown09

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    #17
    That's why I haven't read it yet... it looks really long and painful.
     
  18. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    If you look up tl;dr in the dictionary, there's a screenshot of this thread :D
     
  19. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    #19
    Just like going to that all-you-can-eat seafood bar damns you to hell. Doesn't matter.

    Look, someone even started a God Hates Shrimp Web site. :D

    It amazes me that people can't see how utterly ridiculous religion is.
     
  20. Kardashian macrumors 68020

    Kardashian

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    #20
    Dunno why but I started turning this line into a song.

    Must be the Cher in me.
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #21
    I think banning seafood is more rational than banning gay sex or clothes with a wool-linen mix, at least seafood gives you food poisoning if it isn't cooked properly ;).
     
  22. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #22
    Are you saying the love I have with Spider-Man isn't real?! :mad:
     
  23. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #23
    Hopefully there won't ever be a lobster flu pandemic, otherwise, we'll just hear "I told you so!" ;)
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    Brilliant website.
     
  25. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #25
    Uh huh to that.

    If anything's of the devil, it's what happens to your stomach after eating a bad mussel (or two...or three...or a whole bucket).
     

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