George W. Bush 'knew Guantánamo prisoners were innocent'

bobertoq

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Original poster
Feb 29, 2008
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macfan881

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Feb 22, 2006
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que me in as the not surprised crowed :cool: another reason why this man needs to be tried as a war crimanal.:mad:
 

Desertrat

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Jul 4, 2003
2
706
Terlingua, Texas
"Colonel Wilkerson, a long-time critic of the Bush Administration’s approach to counter-terrorism and the war in Iraq, claimed that the majority of detainees — children as young as 12 and men as old as 93, he said — never saw a US soldier when they were captured. He said that many were turned over by Afghans and Pakistanis for up to $5,000. Little or no evidence was produced as to why they had been taken."

Stipulate that he's correct. But Wilkerson doesn't actually say that the 12s & 93s wound up in Gitmo, either. The writer phrased it in such a way to imply they were transported. The question then arises, why bother to take such people all the way to Gitmo? 12-year olds? 93-year olds? Snitched out, sure. But adding such hassle of transport and incarceration if "they knew of innocence" did nothing to help any war on terror.

"Defenders of Guantánamo said that detainees began to be released as early as September 2002, nine months after the first prisoners were sent to the jail at the US naval base in Cuba."

So as allegations were found to not be correct, they were repatriated. The innocent were let go.

I dunno. Lots of stoopid has gone on, all through this whole WOT deal. But this type of write-up just looks like a bunch of Bush-bash for the sake of Bush-bashing.

And until the Bush-bash crowd starts screaming for ALL of us to be able to find out why we'd have been put on a no-fly list, I'm underwhelmed by the hypocrisy. The Left seems to love and cherish the WOT laws as much as the Right.
 

Queso

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Mar 4, 2006
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And until the Bush-bash crowd starts screaming for ALL of us to be able to find out why we'd have been put on a no-fly list, I'm underwhelmed by the hypocrisy. The Left seems to love and cherish the WOT laws as much as the Right.
Government should have no power to impede free movement of the populace. The no-fly lists are evidence that we've all sleep-walked a step further from being a free society. They ought to be abolished entirely rather than those on a list having the right to question why.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
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Government should have no power to impede free movement of the populace. The no-fly lists are evidence that we've all sleep-walked a step further from being a free society. They ought to be abolished entirely rather than those on a list having the right to question why.
Yep- and yet again, 'rat and the rest of the right will look for a way to excuse Bush and Cheney, rather than admit what heinous people they are, how much they damaged this country's good name, and what poor decisions they made.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
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George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up...
As Barack's push toward socialism increases and Obama's economic and international failures become more noticeable, expect more rearward blame of the "prior" administration as distraction.
 

skunk

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Jun 29, 2002
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Stipulate that he's correct.
If you had been paying any attention you would have known that most detainees at Bagram, like most at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, had zero evidence against them, and that it was common knowledge that 80-90% of them were innocent victims of mass arrests or bounty hunters. This was reported many times, and quoted in this Forum too. Only a tiny fraction of the detainees ever had any charges brought against them.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
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Chicago, Illinois
If you had been paying any attention you would have known that most detainees at Bagram, like most at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, had zero evidence against them, and that it was common knowledge that 80-90% of them were innocent victims of mass arrests or bounty hunters. This was reported many times, and quoted in this Forum too. Only a tiny fraction of the detainees ever had any charges brought against them.
Whic is exactly why we will never win "hearts and minds" of any Iraqis. The damage has been done, and the "WOT" is only going to get worse, not better. It will never be won.
 

Zombie Acorn

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Feb 2, 2009
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By liberal standards all of the people held in gitmo are innocent. Lets bring them to the states and give them a fair trial, release them and let the liberals deal with the consequences.
 

Queso

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Mar 4, 2006
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I agree, lets stop capturing people who try blowing up our citizens/troops.
If they are genuinely involved with that they will surely be found guilty at their fair trial, no? Or are you suggesting the US justice system is sub-standard?
 

Zombie Acorn

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If they are genuinely involved with that they will surely be found guilty at their fair trial, no? Or are you suggesting the US justice system is sub-standard?
Revealing evidence obtained in a court setting would endanger insiders who are gathering intel for us, on top of which we would find it hard to gather intel in the future by the same methods.

Do what you wish, don't say that I never warned you though.
 

Desertrat

macrumors newbie
Jul 4, 2003
2
706
Terlingua, Texas
Sorry, leekohler, but being dubious about portions of a news story which is negative about Bush is in no way excusing Bush from anything.

I've no doubt that there were screwups of one sort or another. Some from not caring about circumstances, some from "This is the easiest way" and some from just plain meanness. But a bunch of hollering, "Evil! Evil! Evil!" at every event is just plain childish.

I try to keep in mind the risk/reward aspect of allegations agains government or government people: Is the reward of whatever sort worth the possible risk of bad PR? Poll-driven government does indeed worry about bad PR. It's not a 100% thing, because "You can't fix stupid" but it makes for a fair batting average to wait until more factual information is available.
 

Queso

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Mar 4, 2006
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...on top of which we would find it hard to gather intel in the future by the same methods....
You mean by locking up hundreds of suspects without trial in the hope of capturing one terrorist? Good. I'm glad we're not going to be able to do that in the future. We should never have considered it acceptable in the first place.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
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You mean by locking up hundreds of suspects without trial in the hope of capturing one terrorist? Good. I'm glad we're not going to be able to do that in the future. We should never have considered it acceptable in the first place.
No. Thats not what I mean, any time you reveal methods of intel gathering you endanger people in the field or undercover.
 

Queso

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Mar 4, 2006
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No. Thats not what I mean, any time you reveal methods of intel gathering you endanger people in the field or undercover.
You seem to be missing the point that if up to 90% of those being locked up are actually innocent it means the intel methods and/or the people doing it aren't actually very good. Clearing the decks, having a rethink and going with a fresh strategy might end up being a lot more successful.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
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Toronto, Ontario
You seem to be missing the point that if up to 90% of those being locked up are actually innocent it means the intel methods and/or the people doing it aren't actually very good. Clearing the decks, having a rethink and going with a fresh strategy might end up being a lot more successful.
Or it might get a lot of innocent people killed. Regardless it doesn't matter to me either way, if you want to try it that way for a while go ahead, I don't want to hear any excuses when the consequences of the inaction is on our doorstep though.

Also not having evidence or having "tainted" evidence does not necessarily make someone innocent in the grand scheme of things. Obama knows this as he already said even if trials were held for top tier terrorists no one was going to be set loose.
 

bradl

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Jun 16, 2008
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As Barack's push toward socialism increases and Obama's economic and international failures become more noticeable, expect more rearward blame of the "prior" administration as distraction.
I'll be blunt, ITN.

Deal with the topic at hand in this thread. Stop deflecting it towards some idiotic sphiel towards the current administration, or don't post at all.

Or is it (per usual) that you don't have a decent common defense or counter-argument for the topic at hand?

I await your response (#103).

BL.