German spy agency says ISIS sending fighters disguised as refugees

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Of course, this is completely untrue. The PC-PSRI peeps already declared that there are no terrorists--not a single one--among the millions of refugees flooding into Europe. :rolleyes:
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  3. bent christian Suspended

    bent christian

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    #3
    Ummm...it's pretty well known that all the identified assailants are citizens of European countries. No refugees are known to have been involved.
     
  4. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68020

    Ulenspiegel

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    #4
    Yes, I remember those heated debates here when there was no argument just (as usual): "link" or "not every "refugee"" is a terrorist" etc.

    P.S.: BfV (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution) is the internal service (counter-intelligence) of Germany, so can not be called a "spy agency". It's the BND (Federal Intelligence Service). ;)
     
  5. MrAverigeUser, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #5
    The most criminal refugees in germany came from Russia. Since the fall of the UDSSR in 1990´s they declared themselves as "jewish refugees" from eastern europe (a lot of them were - formally - Jews indeed) and got automatically german passports. EVERY person with jewish roots can get instantly a german passport since 1945. be it as a refugee or just because he wants to.

    And just to answer already in advance: Most of the people demanding a German passport were until 2012 ab solutely friendly and law-respecting Israelis. Every year there is a new record broken by jewish people (mostly Israelis) demanding a german passport, mostly young people, who want to live in the nowadays very liberal and comfortable Germany. In Israel, they are more and more attacked and threatened by radical, orthodox, fundamental Jews, often Settlers, who want to destroy the social and cultural live of young, open-minded Isarelis and prevent them from living like THEY, the Young people, want to live. Many young Israelis agree less and less with modern politics , for example the neocolonialism of the last governments, being now permanently under pressure of ultra radical jewish racists and settlers of the western banks, doing nothing but trying to force an escalade of confrontation between These young Israeli and the palestinian people, similar to the palestinian extremists/terrorist. Many of the young Israelis don´t come instantly, but I have been told that nearly the majority of young Israeli demanded or got a german passport already. They know that they are welcome in Germany.

    Back to the "Russian Jewish Refugees" : They got the majority now in the jewish community in Berlin.
    so - I DO NOT AT ALL claim to stop that program - but if you follow aaronvan´s warnings and prejudges - than the Germans would have to classify all jewish refugees as "Criminals" because a overproportional percentage of the eastern "jewish refugees" are said to be - in reality - nothing but criminals, who took their chance to enter Germany by claiming to be jewish refugees. The Germans do NOT follow aaronvan´s method to prejudge in a simplified and unjust way.
    Every human being has the right to be judged refugee or not by nothing but HIS/HER personal track of life and according to the law..

    As for terrorists:

    1) Most of the european terrorists were the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation of immigrants of the "glorious" time of european colonialism. Nearly any came from foreign countries. 7 of 9 identified (dead) terrorists of the Paris attacks 2015 were childs of immigrants - mostly 3rd generation. In first line, we have a massive problem with integration, even over some generations. BUT: The vast majority of immigrants are well integrated (Particuarily in Germany).
    2) YES, there has been already leaks - of course ISIS has and will transfer a certain quantity their terrorists to Europe.
    Yes, this is a danger. It is a very difficult situation.
    3) The key point is good integration - this will stop 1.-4. Gen Immigrants from getting radicals (Most of their parents are well-integrated muslims or often enough not even much attached to Islam).
    4) The best way to prevent Europe from getting threatened by terrorism is…

    … STOPPING to play the silly neocolonialism-play in the so-called "Third world" and so prevent and get out from consequences of failed geostrategical desasters mainly caused by US-foreign policy putting fire nearly everywhere around the mediterranean sea and the near east. And STOP the support for the financiers of religious terrorism These supporters of ISIS, Al NUsra and the nearly 40 other islamic terroristic organizations call themselves Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Kuweit, and last but not least Turkey /under Erdogans command).

    Shalom.
     
  6. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #6
    To quote the top Reddit comment on this same article: "ISIS fighters would have to be literally mentally handicapped to not think of this."
     
  7. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68020

    Ulenspiegel

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    #7
    1. I don't really want to go into the details of the criteria of naturalisation in Germany, but it is a little bit more complex than "being a declared Jewish refugee is sufficient to get automatically a German passport". Let's not oversimplify this issue, especially when it is absolutely irrelevant to the title and topic of the thread.

    2. You follow a twisted logic, drawing a parallel between the Jewish refugees in Germany and the terrorists who infiltrated the European continent with the "refugee" flood/crisis and committed terrorist acts, raped woman as well as killed social workers attending them.

    3. Who can be considered a refugee is strictly regulated by international conventions and domestic laws.

    4. Good integration. If it were so simple! There could not be better integration as of the Abdeslam family, nevertheless two brothers (who by the way managed a bar in Molenbeek, so much for the "bad" integration of 2nd generation immigrants) were deeply involved in the Paris terrorist attacks claiming 130 dead and 368 injured.


     
  8. MrAverigeUser, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #8
    YES, every terrorist would be mentally handicapped, this sentence is correct.

    But you would ALSO be mentally handicapped to refuse ALL refugees shelter just because there might be (and shurely are) terrorists taking their chance to enter some countries under cover.

    The REAL problem iOS, that even extremely suspicious people (like some terrorists of 9/11 being only interested how to fly and NOT how to land with a plane when they got their training IN THE USA before) , identified extremists like the two boston terrorists and the two terrorists killing people in the "Charlie hebdo" case in Paris and the terrorist who took hostages in a jewish supermarket in Paris 1 week later: they all were well-known - but even not at all under surveillance !

    The best thing to do is NOT being responsible for the REASONS why millions of innocent people and inhabitants are transformed in refugees…

    Question: If there were 10 persons in a sinking boat and you KNEW that one of them is a terrorist - would you deny to help them and accept that all 10 will die?
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #9
    they can do what Canada does & not admit any single males
     
  10. MrAverigeUser, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016

    MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #10

    I was aware of the possibility that some will TRY to misunderstand me.
    It is not at all my logic which is twisted, it is the logic of aaronvan.
    For further explications look above for the question about the 10 people in a burning house.

    Aaronvan´s proposition would mean in that case to let them all die.
    My proposition is to save all 10 and try with ALL legal (!) methods of the law to identify the terrorist - and so prevent as much as possible that he will kill someone. There is NO 100% security - not even if you give up freedom.

    “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

    Benjamin Franklin

    Again:

    There are refugees from all over the world coming to Germany.
    The german constitution gives everybody the right to stay as long as he/she´s life is in danger who is a *REAL* refugee. That has to be seen in every individual case according to the law.

    The problem is that already in 2015 (not to talk about the years before and 2016) about 1,5 million people entered Germany declaring being a refugee. Nearly impossible to get justice, not to mention building the infrastructure to help them all (If they were real refugees).

    There is NO way to handle it. So - the ONLY way to help the best possible is to help refugee camps near their countries with the best infrastructure possible (Schools, hospitals, jobs, …)
    BUT there are some countries more interested to throw bombs than to at least give their minimum financial part according to the UNHCR demands. BTW the USA under the worst of all…
    --- Post Merged, Feb 5, 2016 ---
    I refer to my former posting in an other thread, especially the later part of this posting from an other Thread:


    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads...n-one-night-in-cologne.1954088/#post-22529235

    --- Post Merged, Feb 5, 2016 ---
    There were a lot of germans (some of them who proposed EXACTLY a "copy" of the Canadian way of channelling migration. already 20 years ago. Sadly, the conservatives refused, though even some of them proposed this GOOD way to chose people who WANT to integrate themselves.
    Chancellor Merkel will not survive politically this year. Although nearly all germans welcomed the refugees at the beginning, there is evidence that Merkel has NO PLAN. Last survey (1 week ago) showed that 80%of the population don´t believe this will end up in a good way. They WANT to help but there is evidence that a) This is already too much and b) this will continue and even get more and more every year.

    We have to help in the countries of origin itselves and the neighbor countries, which are suffering much more than Europe. Libanon for example has now nearly as much refugees as the have inhabitants! We have to help these countries to help those refugees! So they are safe and in/near their own culture and can also help each other more efficient.

    BUT the some aggressive Neocolonialists have to STOP their foreign policy which destabilizes one country after the other…. This foreign policy creates tens of thousands of refugees EVERY DAY. This has to stopped immediately.
     
  11. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68020

    Ulenspiegel

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    #11
    Your intention was absolutely transparent, noone misunderstood it.
    Let's employ your example with "10 people in a burning house" and consider it from a different perspective: "One of ten is a terrorist. You don't know who. He is a suicide bomber. If he leaves the perimeters of the house, the bomb explodes. Now, what you do?"
    There was NO way to identify and single out the terrorists amongst/from the "refugees" flooding the EU countries.
    When "refugees" were encouraged by the leader of one of the mightiest EU member states, then certainly there is no way to handle the problem properly.
    I agree 100% that "the ONLY way to help the best possible is to help refugee camps near their countries with the best infrastructure possible".
     
  12. MrAverigeUser macrumors 6502a

    MrAverigeUser

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    #12
    YES, Merkel did the worst thing she could do, 80% of the germans think so (now).

    And the EU is NOT the USE, it is still a bunch of (now and too fast) 26 countries, willing to cooperate, but each has its own culture, history, and starts from different economic levels.

    Its one of the best political projects ever - since the end of WWII generations of political leaders in Europe acted to NEVER EVER let again happen what happened even 2 times before in the same century. more than 60 Million died, the worst genozid slaughtery that ever happened (in the mid of europe!), about 100-150 Millions traumatized for the rat their life or/and handicapped, eradicated cities. the half of Europe was "Ground zero".

    de Gaulle and Adenauer had their project to approach France and Germany, over decades more and more countries approached slowly, but effectively. Generate confidence was a difficult thing to do after all what happened.
    They had success because they did NOT generate pressure on European people nor on the european countries.
    Brandt arrived to cross even the magic border to generate more and confident relöations, this foreign policy (and NOT the cowboy-policy of Reagan) was the reason why there was not one single shot when the eastern totalitarism faded away.

    The following generations did the same - but the politicians of today does´t know no more how war is about - and they are unable to imagine and are not even interested in what their grandfathers and grandmothers and all the slaughtered people had to go through.

    They are just technocrats - and so they accelerated the "fusion" of very different countries and culture much too fast.
    Europe is now exploding in terms of common sense because of that. The nowadays-politicians haven´t the patience needed to approach smoothly and efficient the countries.

    So - in the moment of the very first REAL threat of common Europe (=EU) and need of common sense and common action - NOW they are each other the least loyal ever.

    A very fragile and dangerous situation indeed.
     

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