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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Oct 12, 2004.
In other words, if Kerry gets President AND if he manages to bring it up at the UN (declaring it non-obsolete in the process) in a sensible way.
If Bush stays, i doubt it.
In other words, we're not promising anything either way, but we'd be willing to help if you ask nicely. Since we know Bush won't, if he is re-elected, we probably won't have to help, but we don't want to piss you off or burn our bridges like you have to us. If Kerry is elected, it's a whole new ball-game and we'd be willing to talk. But we're still not promising anything.
Slick of them. France may not help, for obvious reasons. Russia, and some others, may not be able to. But others may if it's in their better interest, which right now it is not.
as far as diplomacy (usually) goes, to me this seems like a deliberately overt statement on the part of the germans. imo, they're saying in no uncertain terms that they think bush is a pointy-headed dork.
This is actually quite significant, IMHO. Berlin is effectively saying that they would like to see a Kerry victory.
I don't think historically the western democracies have made any comments on their preffered outcome in each others elections. It's bad form, and endangers the relationship if the other side wins.
Just shows how pissed off these guys are with Bush.
Also if Germany did go along with a Kerry plan, I think France would also join in for a couple of reasons.
1) Not wanting to be left out
2) France has some influence in the ME and will be keen to extend that by having an ifluence on a democratic Iraq. (an example was how the french were able to organise the release of the french hostages by effectively calling in favours)
3) Wanting it to appear as if Europe is coming along and helping out the US after it got itself into a bit of a fix because the brash youngster ignored the advice of his elders. (Spain, who's been courting France and Germany will probably come along if they do, and Poland won't want to be left out. )
If Kerry wins and plays his cards well, i think he could manage to get 'old Europe' on board.
As an aside i wonder what the long term effects of all this will be on the UK as a part of Europe.
How could it possibly be worse?
Exactly! This is what i was getting at.
They must feel that the relationship is at such a low point that this kind of statement can't possibly make things any worse if Bush wins, and could improve the situation if Kerry wins.
Its a no-lose proposition. Diplomatic arbitrage if you will.
hm as soon as i saw this thread i instantly fired up www.spiegel.de and...what a surprise
"Schröder pfeift Struck zurück"
in short: no german troops in the next few years
(german government actually made an decision last month that 'Fuchs' APCs will be provided to support the new iraqy army..an additional information provided by the article)
edit: after all it's a hard topic for german politicians.. to deploy german _fighting_ troops outside of the country has around the same impact as banning handguns in the US by tommorow... Schröder already got burned badly with sending troops into afghanistan
more interesting is todays newsline that italy is considering pulling out their troops after the election in january