Germany printing Deutchmarks ...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by acidfast7, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. acidfast7 macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    #1
    ... to be prepared to leave the Euro within the next 6 weeks. The new currency will also be used by CH, A, NL, L and FI.

    You heard it here first, and I heard it out the ECB this evening.
     
  2. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #2
    No, that rumor has been going round for years.
     
  3. acidfast7 thread starter macrumors 65816

    acidfast7

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    #3
    LOL, I heard it from someone at the ECB (who also let me in on the AAA being lost before it happened.)
     
  4. GermanyChris macrumors 601

    GermanyChris

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    #4
    you realize that Germany does't want to go back to the DM..but they will being that they are the powerhouse of Europe..
     
  5. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #5
    If Germany did such a stupid thing, the neues DM would skyrocket in value like the Swiss Franc did and y'all will be going to Poland to shop for food and clothing because you won't be able to afford to buy anything in Germay.

    Greece is irrelevant, Italy isn't though and neo-fascist Berlusconi has no interest in doing what is necessary to deal with the crisis. He scares me, Papendrou (sp?) doesn't.
     
  6. MacHamster68, Nov 3, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011

    MacHamster68 macrumors 68040

    MacHamster68

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    #6
    The Euro is just some monopoly money that at very least would need a reform and the EU would finally need Countries who dont compete with each other in "who is managing in the shortest time to get bankrupt "
    Germany only does that well because they still have a high rating and still can get credit from everywhere , but technically Germany is more in dept then Greece (in real numbers ) and just managing to pay the interest , but needs every year more credit and totally ignoring like all the others their Maastrich treaty
    when Germany joined the EURO the national dept was in a relation of 59% of GDP
    the Mastrich treaty was MAX 60% ,but in 2010 Germany was already at 80% of GDP


    when Italy was allowed to join the Euro their dept was 109% of GDP ,under the Maastrich treaty Italy could never even join the Euro but they got permission under the assumption they would reduce their national dept significantly ... in 2010 it was 119% of GDP

    so the Maastrich treaty is not even worth the paper it was written on if every country is bending the rules to their liking

    here the national dept in the world
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_public_debt

    so getting over this desaster called Euro would be a great thing before we rely on financial help from African states as quiet a few do much better there then we do in terms of dept vs GDP, or from Russia with a national dept of just 11.75 of GDP ;)
     
  7. simsaladimbamba

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    #7
    I heard the same rumour some weeks ago, when my flatmate told me, that his father met someone working at the Bundesdruckerei telling his father this, but I guess it was just stupid chitchat, because even if it would be the case, someone working there and telling someone else, that this is the case, it would seriously violate the contract between the Bundesdruckerei and its employee.
     
  8. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #8
    I'm not so sure Greece is completely irrelevant, simply because Greece is setting a template of how the EU will deal with these kinds of problems, since they will continue. I think it adds up, and when other countries with relatively protectionist governmental systems in Southern Europe need help, Greece's gamesmanship is going to set the tenor.

    You're right, of course, though, that Italy is a much larger piece of the European economy, much more worrisome, tougher to bailout, tougher to reform. Germany and France have their work cut out for them. On this side of the pond, the view seems to be that this will either lead to a much more tightly integrated Europe (because they go "all in") or else the EU will fall apart. I'm not honestly sure which is better.

    NPR also had an interesting piece on yesterday about how the EU's decisions affect the world, e.g., a monetary union project that has been underway between East African nations and how it is modeled on the EU and what was "supposed" to happen with the Euro.
     
  9. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #9
    The Euro != the EU.

    Only 17 of the 27 countries in the EU adopted the Euro, and a few countries (Norway, Switzerland) maintain very close links into the EU without being full members.

    While the future of the Euro may be coming under question, that does not imply any lack of enthusiasm for the EU project as a whole - encompassing as it does a free trade area, free travel zone, legal jurisdiction, employment zone etc.
     
  10. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #10
    The issue with Greece is that if they accept EU aid, then they will have to reform their economy but like it or not, the Greek economy is totally non viable and will have to be reformed one way or another. They simply can't continue on the path they've been on for the last 40 years. If they break with the EU monetary union, nobody will invest in Greece because the political system is broken, Greeks don't pay their taxes and insane laws prevent companies from having any sense of stability. I fell sorry for Greek individuals, but not for Greek society. It's a train wreck decades in the making.

    The big economies in Europe are of course the players in this game and Sarkozy and Merkel's shared wink about Berlusconi playing along was quite telling. The only way forward for the EU and this is no surprise to people who've followed its progress is greater political and economic centralization. The EU needs a foreign minister and it needs a tighter economic union. Throughout this entire crisis, I don't think I've once heard mention of the EU presidency and that's mostly because it's mostly a title with little or no power. The question is, are all the little countries willing to allow Germany, France, Italy and even Spain to make decisions for them. It will be interesting to see how things stand ten years from now.

    The Euro came about during a time of great economic expectations and unreal expansion. Its debut allowed Greece to borrow beyond its means and falsify its books and Spain to ignore the jumbled mess that remains from the Franco era. Italy continues to muddle along with its aging emperor. Germany entered the period with a reunification hangover and was took advantage of the Euro's lower trading costs to become an even greater powerhouse.

    I think monetary unions hold a great deal of promise for many regions of the world but they need a stricter implementation than the Euro got.
     
  11. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #11
    Germany printing Deutchmarks ...

    Greece printing toiletpaper ...
     
  12. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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  13. northy124 macrumors 68020

    northy124

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    #13
    1. It is Deutsche Mark.
    2. Why would any other country want to use the Deutsche Mark? namely Switzerland which has the Swiss Franc which is simply doing a lot better than the Euro and what the DM could do if it was brought back today.
    3. Never going to happen.
     
  14. boss.king macrumors 68040

    boss.king

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    #14
    Claims without an adequate source are worth less than the time it took to type this.
     
  15. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #15
    Yes, yes, your political union between politically unstable Southern countries with fascist governments and crumbling economic infrastructure and Scandinavian countries with extremely progressive governance and a way of doing things that is completely at odds with Italy, Spain, or Greece, is going just fine, except for the blip of the economic catastrophe it's mired in (although that economic crisis, which involves their shared currency, has nothing to do with what the EU is). Good luck. Or perhaps, I should say, I am envious. :p
     
  16. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #16
    Sounds like the American red/blue divide!
     
  17. firestarter, Nov 4, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011

    firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #17
    Of proper culture and history, sane working hours, 5 weeks+ of vacations, universal health care, cheap international travel? Who wouldn't be? ;)

    Seriously though... there are big political challenges across all the major trading blocks. European government pretty much sucks, and I think most Europeans are keen on some form of inter-cooperation despite the EU, rather than because of it.

    Britain's attitude is pretty typical of that. People are generally enthusiastic about the possibilities Europe offers, but we're also glad we're not part of the Euro-zone. We're not keen on greater Euro government powers, but a lot of the regulations we've signed up to (including the European Human Rights bill) have been very good for UK individuals. The European political system as-is is way too biased towards the ruling political elites of France and Germany.

    Looking over at the US, your political system looks pretty broken too. The set up you currently have seems to limit the sitting government's ability to get anything done (the debt ceiling raise was a complete farce, and Obama's attempts at health care reform seem to have been counterproductive). In addition, corporate corruption of government is rife. Not exactly a shining example of democracy.
     
  18. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #18
    The problem is a lot people seem to be instinctively against a union, because of silly nationalism. A lot of people don't think about whether the EU is good or or bad, just that they don't want to be involved with the French/Germans or whatever their prejudice. Childish really!

    Oh, pet leave of mine- European Convention of Human Rights, and the Court are not part of the EU. The ECHR predates it by a long way and has 47 signatories compared to 27 EU states. :)
     
  19. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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    #19
    I'm quite the europhile, but I still think the European government structures we currently have aren't fit for purpose. That's all fine while they're on the right track, but if they started to veer off course, there isn't sufficient democratic control to bring them back.

    I think the EU is essential, as a foil for the US and China power-blocks. As a citizen, it has so many possibilities too.
    True. And I don't share my fellow Tory-sympathisers dislike of the ECHR either. The ECHR and court proved very useful in preventing the worst excesses of Labour big-state policies (stop and search, DNA retention etc.). In the absence of a bill of rights, it's the best legislation we have.
     
  20. MacHamster68 macrumors 68040

    MacHamster68

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    #20
    it is called European Union on Paper , but in reality you got 27 autonomic states and not a Union , as they cant agree in most things and all just try to get the best out of it , and that cant work

    if you got a broken car in a ditch and 2 people and you want get the car out of that ditch both need to push or pull in the same direction , in the European union you got 27 and a couple of them who push and pull in different directions and quiet a few who prefer to do nothing and just sit inside the car and wait for someone else to sort the problem and the result is the car drops even deeper in the ditch and everyone is blaming the other for the problem
     
  21. nick9191 macrumors 68040

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  22. firestarter macrumors 603

    firestarter

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  23. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #23
    Plain speaking?? :eek: We are all going to Hell. :rolleyes:
     
  24. Pink∆Floyd macrumors 68020

    Pink∆Floyd

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    #24
    Thank you for letting us know, my uncle told my dad the same thing
     
  25. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #25
    the percentage of dept isn't as important as claimed though.. just look at Spain who often is claimed "a country in danger"

    their dept ? quite a bit lower than germany

    the difference ? the economy... if germany just keeps their current level of 'new dept' each federal budget for the next few years their dept % will drop below 70% within 7 years
    don't forget that Germany also happens to have the lowest unemployment ratings since _20_ years, has currently set a new record for tax revenue (thanks to their economy) and the revenue for the next years is even higher even if the now lower projected goals _aren't_ met
    in fact just 2 weeks ago their coalition announced a small 6 billion tax break for the coming years

    Spain ridiculous high youth unemployment numbers, a big real estate crisis political unstable and a struggling economy despite making cuts since years
     

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