Given Truth the Misinformed Believe Lies More

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Raid, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #1
    I rarely create new threads, but this I thought the frequenters of the PRSI should be interested in.

    Given Truth the Misinformed Believe Lies More
    For me the topics of fact and belief in the transcript of the show "Talk of the Nation" (and I'm not talking about the immigration issue they raise) really reflects what I see going on here in the PRSI.

    Often the discussions here rarely do anything to sway thinking or alter peoples opinions. Eventually the points, and counter points people try to make degrade into attacks on the person or go off on tangents that dilute the main point and weakening points and counter points to the main topic.

    The problem in their words:
    So maybe the problem lies with us? If we're not willing to challenge what we believe maybe we shouldn't read these threads here. Maybe if we aren't ready to have our beliefs challenged we shouldn't post here.

    If you're going to correct every single 'misguided' belief people have out there, save some time and sign up for a rubber room. ;) And if you're not going to defend your belief or be willing to talk about counter arguments rationally then why post here at all?

    Just sayin'
     
  2. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #2
    People rarely change their mind in a clean break. Its usually a gradual chipping away that does it.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    You have that right. I've often suggested to the mods that repeated refusal to acknowledge facts should result in a time out. It's the only way this forum will ever become civil again.

    That too.
     
  4. Zaid macrumors 6502

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    #4
    I guess the more invested you are in a particular paradigm, and the more it has shaped your own identity, the more difficult and painful it is to accept any information contrary to that paradigm. You will find any excuse to exclude such information. It becomes emotional rather than logical.

    And this goes for extremes on both the left and the right.
     
  5. Disc Golfer macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    What I don't understand is why people who are pro-left or pro-right absolutely fail to realize that all governments are lying ********ers. How can you be for any of it? They just want to **** you.
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    Probably because we realize that there is a lot of good in our system. It's set up in a way that can be really effective if we can vote for people that want to work towards a better country rather than score political points.

    Don't the game, hate the teams we picked to play.
     
  7. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #7
    My thoughts

    My thoughts exactly. Government = Bad (Generally) so I hold Libertarian ideals, because Libertarian ideals support the smallest possible government.

    Sounds good, but ask some of these forum members about libertarianism and you may as well be asking them about the black plague or ted bundy.
     
  8. OttawaGuy macrumors 6502a

    OttawaGuy

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    #8
    [​IMG]

    Given Truth the Misinformed Believe Lies More they will
     
  9. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #9
    Sounds good, but doesn't work. I was a Libertarian when I was young and idealistic.


    EDIT: Just got reminded in a post by .Andy . . . I was libertarian, not a Libertarian.
     
  10. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #10
    Thats nice

    I was more liberal than you guys when I was younger and more idealistic. You sound jaded.

    I'll keep tabs on my own ideals though :rolleyes:
     
  11. remmy macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    Bad government is just bad, doesn't matter what system or size.

    Things are more complex than just choosing one system or political group and thinking everything will be okay.
     
  12. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #12
    Not jaded (well . . . maybe a little). More life experience. I'm far older than you. But I admire you for your interest in these matters.
     
  13. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #13
    Well said and spot on. It is in our nature to associate our choices with who we are and therefore admitting you made a poor decision or an error in judgement is a blow to your self esteem and like an admission that you yourself are wrong in some way.

    Think about how often you have seen someone make a choice and despite all the evidence in the world that the decision was unwise or incorrect, they "bear down" becoming more determined to defend and further pursue their original choice.

    The human ego is an extremely powerful force to which we all fall susceptible.

    As a personal illustration I remember a camping trip I took with my father, brother in law, and some friends when I was a teenager. We packed in and began setting up camp. We had this little packing hammock that could be strung up between two trees and accomodate one person. I was setting it up and my dad came over to help out. He tried to show me the best knots to use for such a task and in my "know it all" teenage arrogance I told him I knew what I was doing and didn't need his help. He patiently tried to help me understand why the knots I was tying wouldn't hold. I snapped and told him his way was fine for him, but that I was going to do it my way and that my knots would be okay. Well, as you can probably guess a few hours later as we were all gathered around the campfire relaxing, the knots gave way and I ended up on the ground amidst the loud laughter of all present. My gracious father resisted the urge to say I told you so. :eek:

    I learned from the experience, but as the article points out not everyone learns from such lessons, even when the facts cause pain or inflict physical consequences as it was in my case.
     
  14. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #14
    Thank you, and you do seem older and wiser ;)

    I grew up discussing politics every night at dinner with my insane family. I started off ridiculously influenced by my parents (Conservative as heck) then my friends in middle school/high school/college (SUPER liberal) now I see both parties are inherently flawed.

    Libertarianism just makes the most sense, and I feel it could work if correctly implemented. Then again, that could be said about pretty much anything:p

    Politics sure is fun though!
     
  15. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #15
    You could be right . . . maybe when I get even older I'll change my opinion and agree with you. :D
     
  16. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #16
    Full circle......! ;)
     
  17. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #17
    I agree. When someone takes religion, politics, national identity, family history, etc., and uses that as a pillar for who they are then they see an attack on those beliefs as an attack on themselves and will naturally react defensively.

    Many people that make up 'the powers that be' know how to exploit that common trait in humanity to their own ends.


    Lethal
     
  18. Raid thread starter macrumors 68020

    Raid

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    #18
    Agreed. Right I'm finding out just how dangerous the ego can be when it identifies with something strongly. Right now I'm reading A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose which is all about the ego. It's quite eye opening, and I guess that's why I found this topic to be particularly interesting.

    To Zaid's point, a paradigm that shapes a personal identity can be considered an extension of the ego. The ego loves to latch on to form and structure, sometimes to the detriment of the person.
     
  19. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #19
    And eventually you'll both figure out (;)) that our political philosophies should be our advisers, not our masters. They present us with ways to think about our current circumstances, but cannot assume our responsibility for thinking about them at all, which is what picking one approach and fitting all circumstances to it amounts to.

    Figuring out what to do is hard and will always be hard. Trying to derive one set of principles that will make society easy (after everyone accepts that set, naturally) is a pipe dream.
     
  20. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #20
    You are so darn stinkin' smart (and articulate).
     
  21. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #21
    I love you. <3
     
  22. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #22
    Interesting topic.

    I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that some people who are open to changing their minds based on new information are called "wafflers" or "too open-minded" by their opponents.

    OTOH, some people pride themselves on "consistency" or "ideological purity" and are steadily cultivating their own media with their own brand of "truth", as an alternative to the traditional informational media.

    I'll leave it to everyone to decide which description fits which side.

    Government is as good or bad as you make it. You know, just like private business.

    At least those went away.
     
  23. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #23
    Man you are witty. Good work.
     
  24. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #24
    Which forum members have referred to libertarianism as being akin to "the black plague" or "Ted bundy"?
     
  25. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #25
    None. I never said they did. I said "may as well have" inferring that they speak about the libertarian philosophy with such disdain that they may as well be speaking about ted bundy or the plague.
     

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